Cylinder #5 not sparking.
02-22-2004, 12:50 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by willwren
86? I wouldn't pay for anything that old. 86 will be the old Magnavox ignition like the early 92'* (unless it'* a single coil setup for the 5.0 V
. The coils he just sold you (which you probably don't need) won't work on the ICM he'* telling you to buy.
I'm assuming Al doesn't fully understand your problem and troubleshooting up to this point, or he wouldn't have suggested coils.
If you MUST try an ICM, see if your wrecker will let you return one if it isn't the problem (which it probably is).
You're sure it'* only one cylinder, not two? If it'* the ICM or Coil, you're almost certainly missing on 2 cylinders.
. The coils he just sold you (which you probably don't need) won't work on the ICM he'* telling you to buy.I'm assuming Al doesn't fully understand your problem and troubleshooting up to this point, or he wouldn't have suggested coils.
If you MUST try an ICM, see if your wrecker will let you return one if it isn't the problem (which it probably is).
You're sure it'* only one cylinder, not two? If it'* the ICM or Coil, you're almost certainly missing on 2 cylinders.
Originally Posted by willwren
Matt, at this point, I would cancel my coil order if it'* not too late. Time to step back a bit from this one and look at it from a logical troubleshooting point of view.
1. Pull codes. If the ICM is faulty, it may have set a code.
2. You need to check all 6 cylinders for spark again. Use an old spark plug on each wire. Do NOT use your finger for this. We're talking 40,000 volts. Or pull the boot off each plug, and stick a screwdriver into the boot until it firmly contacts the clip for the head of the plug. Hold the screwdriver WAY down on the plastic handle. Now hold it near something metal, like the brackets for the engine hoist attached to your heads. VERY near. Have a buddy crank the engine. Watch for a spark to jump from the shaft of the screwdriver to the metal (ground).
3. If two are missing, do a FULL check of that coil, then SWAP that coil and see if the problem 'moves' with it. If it stays in the same spot, it'* probably the ICM. If it moves with the coil, it'* the coil. Make sense?
4. If it'* only one cylinder, you have a bad plug and/or wire, or a bad fuel injector.
1. Pull codes. If the ICM is faulty, it may have set a code.
2. You need to check all 6 cylinders for spark again. Use an old spark plug on each wire. Do NOT use your finger for this. We're talking 40,000 volts. Or pull the boot off each plug, and stick a screwdriver into the boot until it firmly contacts the clip for the head of the plug. Hold the screwdriver WAY down on the plastic handle. Now hold it near something metal, like the brackets for the engine hoist attached to your heads. VERY near. Have a buddy crank the engine. Watch for a spark to jump from the shaft of the screwdriver to the metal (ground).
3. If two are missing, do a FULL check of that coil, then SWAP that coil and see if the problem 'moves' with it. If it stays in the same spot, it'* probably the ICM. If it moves with the coil, it'* the coil. Make sense?
4. If it'* only one cylinder, you have a bad plug and/or wire, or a bad fuel injector.
I have seen coils just go bad by themselves though. Sometimes it'* just the ICM though & even sometimes BOTH the ICM & Coil(*) go too. These ignition systems can be a real pain to diagnose.
Just for the record here though.....I CAN cancel the order for the MSD items at this point w/o any penalty to Matt or his Mother'* MC too. BUT! I need to KNOW NOW before the order gets placed MONDAY AM! I don't want to be seen as the "bad guy" here because I sell Performance Parts to people who ask for them. I only wish to sell parts & give my opinion to those whom ask for it. In the same light though, I don't want to see ANYONE buy an item off me, to later find out it didn't solve their problem, especially if I'm not fully aware that a problem even existed! In this case I knew Matt had a problem with the #5 cylinder. He told me he thought it was the coil, therefore I went with that diagnosis. If further diagnosis shows the ICM is at fault, then Matt needs an ICM. If Matt still wishes the MSD items regardless of what outcome is found, then that'* MATT'* DECISION.
02-22-2004, 02:09 PM
#33
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Al is pointing out how difficult it can be to be a vendor on a forum. You MUST troubleshoot to the failed component before ordering! And don't expect your vendor to troubleshoot for you. It puts them in a potentially damaging situation.
You can spend 300 bucks on this problem, or do it right the first time.
An 86 will not have the Delco Remy ignition unless it'* a transplant.
You can spend 300 bucks on this problem, or do it right the first time.
An 86 will not have the Delco Remy ignition unless it'* a transplant.
02-22-2004, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by willwren
Al is pointing out how difficult it can be to be a vendor on a forum. You MUST troubleshoot to the failed component before ordering! And don't expect your vendor to troubleshoot for you. It puts them in a potentially damaging situation.
You can spend 300 bucks on this problem, or do it right the first time.
An 86 will not have the Delco Remy ignition unless it'* a transplant.
You can spend 300 bucks on this problem, or do it right the first time.
An 86 will not have the Delco Remy ignition unless it'* a transplant.
Yes it can be potentially difficult being a vendor & helping diagnose too. 
On one hand I make money & on the other I can cut my own throat if I'm wrong too! 
Originally Posted by jr's3800
The 86-87 3.8'* had either a type 1 or type 2 system... The type 2 being a Delco System.... But If memory serves the ICM'* are keyed diffrent... Also be careful as a 3300 Buick V6 has a simmilar looking ICM ans coil set up but it will not fit a 3800... Good Luck Matt
The "Extra" wire on the Type II harness is just a GROUND wire! Both systems will work on a Type I harness w/o ANY problems what-so-ever.
02-22-2004, 06:46 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by jr's3800
Originally Posted by willwren
Not sure what happened, but Don'* 91 worked for awhile, then puked. He'* back to Type 1 I believe.
I see what you're saying now then....Hmmmmm, I wonder now if it WILL work after all then. Do you remember if the harness connector had the exact same number & positioning of "pin-outs" or not as the Series I'*? All I got left here is a Magnavox ICM &Coil pack now.
02-22-2004, 09:36 PM
#37
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UPDATE:
It is not my ICM it is the coil pack itself. Tonight i moved the middle coil pack around and no matter were it was plugged in, #5 did not spark (this is what fuddy told me to do, the ol switcheroo)
Anyways tomorrow is my last day with the Bonneville, im parking it in my grandparents garage for a month or so, i need to do some serious catching up on my fundage. Also I will be driving the car that they dont need nor the one that they use, its a 89 Toyota Camry V6, its not a bad car. Gets awesome gas mileage, takes regular only, and all i have to do is pay my grandparents for the insurance, which is 30 dollars per month. Very cheap to drive compared to 200 dollars a month for insurance. I want to save up and buy some more parts and peices, possibly a flowmaster muffler, smaller pulley, bigger idler,power steering pump, those type of things.
The oil in the Bonnie smells like gas, and im sure if i lit a match in it, it would burn. Tomorrow it will be on the road for around 20 minutes total! Very small trips.
Al Do not cancel my order!
It is not my ICM it is the coil pack itself. Tonight i moved the middle coil pack around and no matter were it was plugged in, #5 did not spark (this is what fuddy told me to do, the ol switcheroo)
Anyways tomorrow is my last day with the Bonneville, im parking it in my grandparents garage for a month or so, i need to do some serious catching up on my fundage. Also I will be driving the car that they dont need nor the one that they use, its a 89 Toyota Camry V6, its not a bad car. Gets awesome gas mileage, takes regular only, and all i have to do is pay my grandparents for the insurance, which is 30 dollars per month. Very cheap to drive compared to 200 dollars a month for insurance. I want to save up and buy some more parts and peices, possibly a flowmaster muffler, smaller pulley, bigger idler,power steering pump, those type of things.
The oil in the Bonnie smells like gas, and im sure if i lit a match in it, it would burn. Tomorrow it will be on the road for around 20 minutes total! Very small trips.
Al Do not cancel my order!
02-22-2004, 10:16 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by SSEimatt93
UPDATE:
It is not my ICM it is the coil pack itself. Tonight i moved the middle coil pack around and no matter were it was plugged in, #5 did not spark (this is what fuddy told me to do, the ol switcheroo)
It is not my ICM it is the coil pack itself. Tonight i moved the middle coil pack around and no matter were it was plugged in, #5 did not spark (this is what fuddy told me to do, the ol switcheroo)
If No. 5 still does not have spark, your coil pack is fine. You've got a bad plug or wire, then.
02-22-2004, 11:10 PM
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YOU MUST REMEMBER I AM DOING THIS SPARK TEST WITH THE WIRE NOT HOOKED UP. I un hooked spark plug wire 5 at the coil pack, started the car, no spark/charge comes out of the terminal, i repeated this test on all the other terminals on the coils, i had very good spark come off them, i dont know why people keep telling me its the wire and plug, when the wire and plug are not part of the test!
When i moved coil pack 5/2 to 6/3'* spot, and started the car, terminal 5 on coil pack 5/2 still did not fire, yet on coil 6/3 both terminals sparked.
When i moved coil pack 5/2 to 6/3'* spot, and started the car, terminal 5 on coil pack 5/2 still did not fire, yet on coil 6/3 both terminals sparked.