97 Bonneville SE - Engine misfiring/Stalling - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 10-12-2010, 11:02 AM   #1
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Default 97 Bonneville SE - Engine misfiring/Stalling

Hey guys hoping you can help me out with this one.

Brief history- Engine in this was changed out for one with less miles and NO lower engine knock Other then minor things here and there it was running great up until about 3 weeks ago.
It started with a little hesitation as you were driving and only lasted a second or two. It grew progressively worse as time went on. It doesnt do it all the time and i cant recreate this issue at will.
It generally wont do it in the AM but on the way home in the afternoon i get about the same distance (with a few miles) from work and it starts shuddering and acting like its not getting any gas. It will usually stall at that point (65mph) forcing me to throw it into neutral and hope it starts, or get over on the side of the express way and let it sit for a min or two and then it starts back up. It seems to be just getting worse. Occasionally i cna feather the gas and then floor it and it will stop shuddering. The other thing that may or may not be related is my Tachometer will be working fine then start jumping up and down then just bottom out. Im pretty sure the engine is not revving to 5.5k on the road as the engine noise does not change.

Here'* what ive done so far:
-changed Fuel Filter
-checked plugs (correct gap - no signs of wear)
-changed Coolant Temp Sensor

It is throwing CE codes:
P0300- Engine Misfire Detected
P0341- Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Performance
P1200- Injector Control Circuit
P1362- Ignition Control (IC) Circuit Low Voltage

Now I have another camshaft sensor and was going to just change it out, but could it really be the sensor or it is throwing that code because its misfiring. I actually have one of everything off the other engine.

i was told it could be a plugged converter, as converters in the past have always been a pain and more expensive I was hoping for some alternatives the other thing someone said was the MAF could be bad, again expensive so im hoping not.

Thanks in advance.Hopefully i covered everything
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:55 AM   #2
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I'd be checking the connection/corrosion at the battery cables for starters.

Misfire..ok, understood
Camshaft..this means that your car has a 1 in 6 chance of starting when you turn the key. Otherwise performance is unhindered (been there..had that)
Ignition voltage low.. No power for spark means no spark. This goes right back to battery voltage. May push back to pcm, but I'm thinking the more common corroded battery cables.
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:12 PM   #3
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ok luckily i had a bunch of my tools in the trunk. Took off battery cables and scrubbed them down with a wire brush, they had some corrosion. Not a lot. Cleaned the terminals also. Reconnected started up and took it to one of our remote locations i had to do some network installations at.

same issue..sigh. it wont do it when idling. it will run all day at idle and never hiccup once. its when moving and seems to do it more at higher speeds.

thanks for that tip though,i had forgot to check the cables.

The voltage gauge in the car is reading a little low, around 11 or so. but i put a tester on it and it shows right @ 12v. now it usd to sit right up around 14 or near the highend of 13.

Maybe time for a new battery?
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Old 10-12-2010, 09:43 PM   #4
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I'm kind of leaning towards a plugged converter.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:36 AM   #5
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I'm thinking electrical because of the tach moving like that and the low voltage code. what about that ground connector people talk about under the carpet? or since the engine was changed is there a ground strap loose some where? I'm only guessing! good luck.
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:44 AM   #6
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The only two grounds on the engine are the battery cable to block in the front of the motor between the starter and the ac compressor. Then there'* a small ground wire for the sensors that is located on the back of the block behind the power steering pump and oil filter adapter if you are looking in through the passenger wheel well.

A plugged converter shouldn't throw ignition system codes, which is my reasoning for not going after it. It'* worth a shot though, loosen the O2 sensor in the rear exhaust manifold and drive it normally (not abusive as the O2 won't be 100%). If you still have the issue, then it'* back to ignition related stuff.

Sounds like it'* idling slower than it should, although I've yet to see a 96-99 put out 14 volts and do it consistently.
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:41 PM   #7
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P1362, as the code says, means your ignition system has low voltage. All of the spark power comes straight from the relay center into the ICM. Now, two things you probably don't know about your ICM (unless you pull out an engine control schematic like I just did):
  • The tachometer is driven by the ICM.
  • The cam sensor plugs into the ICM.
Hey, there'* three of your issues right there!

Now, before you run out an buy a new ICM, let me stop you and say that your fuel injectors aren't connected to it. However, if the computer is seeing erroneous readings and trying to adjust fuel injector timing to match, that could cause the P1200 code.

Assuming that your battery cables, the ICM'* 20A fuse, and wiring harness are all good, I'd look into the ICM. Thoughts, everyone?
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:21 PM   #8
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awesome guys you have given me a bunch to check that i hadnt thought of. i really appreciate the work you guys do

I didnt have time much this week to look at it, so ill start tonight and see what i get. Whats funny is that today it didnt do it to me at all.

Its cooler today then it has been and was rainy. It generally runs rough in the AM, almost like moisture in a cracked distributor cap rough. drive it aways and it smooths out. Just thought id make sure im giving all the info.

Thanks again guys.
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:34 PM   #9
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Ok I just ran out to the parking lot and took a look at the ICM. Lo and behold what do i find? The plug that is screwed into the connector does not have a housing on it. Looks like my cousin who was helping either broke it or it was broke and just wrapped it in electrical tape.

I have another connector on the other wiring harness, I would just switch out the harness but the guy who actually removed the engine from the other car cut a few other sensor plugs off on it for some reason.

My question is...Would splicing in the plug from the other harness do the trick? Obviously using crimp connectors and shrink tubing, do you see any issue with that?
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:38 PM   #10
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Splicing connectors on a wire harness is a bit of a pain. The wire don't like to take solder real well. And crimp connectors tend to fail after a while.
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