94 Bonnie brake Problems...Could be ABS ***UPDATE*** - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 12-17-2005, 09:57 AM   #1
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Default 94 Bonnie brake Problems...Could be ABS ***UPDATE***

guess what?
My 94 Bonnies SE.. brakes engaged my themselves and i am positive the ABS is the culprit.

I was driving on the freeway.. when my car seemed to slow down irratically and pull to one side and to the other (as happens when u brake to a sudden stop),
miliseconds after the noise of metal rubbing on the pavement or metal rubbin on metal took over... my car still seemed to be braking as im hitting the accelerator. The ABS light came on. If i pressed the brake, it would apply a bit more preassure and help me stop.. but it would not unlock the brakes. The sounds of metal on metal presisted
I took the next exit..looked under the car to see if something was had come off and i was dragging it as it was my first reaction, but nothing was haging off.. or was there any signs that something had been..(u know like loose axels, loose plates n so on)
My second reaction was to check the ABS,cylinder,brake lines and so on, everything seemed correct. I know the ABS was working before i could feel it kick back in the snowy roads the day before. it appeared to me as if my brakes had locked on and wouldnt let go off the wheels..

Any suggestions on what the problem could be.
The conditions outside are bad.. lots of snow and ice everywhere..
dont know if something might have gotten into the wheels or frozen something...

a week before this inciddent i had just had replaced with brand new parts, my calippers,shoes,pads,discs,drums and so on. Also i had to hav bled the system because air got into the brakelines. SO we bled. we only did manual bleed. none of that autobleed that everyone suggests. Dont know if this might have an affect on my ABS a week later.
This problem boggles me and i cannot see a solution as everything about the brakes is new.. execpt brakelines and ABS.
I am considering taking my bonnie to a dealer and hav it scanned for codes..
but i find it real had to believe that the ABS or brakes would just give it on me like that
after functioning well for months and show no signs of going....

please advice guys.. thanks
94Bonnie SE
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:09 AM   #2
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I'd pull the wheels and check the pads & rotors. Maybe one of the pads came loose fom the steel backing plate.
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:17 AM   #3
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Im going to have to do that, But i had to leave my car parked in a different city all together..
as this happened when i was on the freeway.
We got 40 centimeters of snow just yesterday..

im going to hav to go and dig the car out..
and bring it a friends house in the city for further diagnostics.

BUT
i do think maybe the pads went loose, as they hav just been installed and maybe something was overlooked.

this doesnt sound like an ABS prob to you??

Thanks
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:26 AM   #4
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Iv'e heard there'* no way abs can apply the brakes . If you heard metal to metal I'm sure you'll see what went wrong when you pull the wheels.
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:32 AM   #5
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eheh yeahh i heard that too!..

K i will do so and get back to you.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 12-17-2005, 01:05 PM   #6
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I replied to you in this topic:

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...=492913#492913

Quote:
Glad you checked this topic. I was just going to link it from your new topic.

It'* NOT the ABS. The ABS has no power or ability to ENGAGE the brakes. It'* absolutely impossible. Please get this out of your head now, or it'll send you off in the wrong direction.

ABS doesn't engage brakes, it PREVENTS them from engaging. The force to stop is provided by you and the brake booster. The ABS takes that force away from any wheel that locks up when ABS is active.

You need to further dissect the failure. Did it pull to one side or the other? Describe in DETAIL exactly how it happened. Including weather conditions, road conditions, etc.
Think of it this way (weak analogy, but it serves the purpose):

Can bicycle brakes engage themselves? No, not unless there'* a major failure of a caliper that comes loose and binds against the rim. Think about that.

Now think of ABS as a small spot of oil on the rims, say a spot every 6" apart. That'* the ABS pulses that LET OFF the brakes to prevent them from locking up (in a simpler sense).

YOU apply the force. Without that force (luke), there can be no braking. The ABS system has no ability BY DESIGN to self-apply the brakes, let alone APPLY the brakes at all.

TC on the 92-95 Bonnevilles is a different story, as it uses applied braking, but I doubt your SE has this option. And there are many safeties and conditions that must be met for that system to operate. Any fault in the system immediately disables itself.
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: 94 Bonnie brake Problems...Could be ABS

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94BonnieSE
guess what?
My 94 Bonnies SE.. brakes engaged my themselves and i am positive the ABS is the culprit.
I'm not. I'm wondering whether the vacuum booster has gone flaky on you. That _can_ apply the brakes when you don't want it to. I remember working on a Cutlass with this problem once: as soon as we started the car, the brake pedal went *whomp* down to the floor as the brakes applied by themselves, full force. We replaced the vacuum booster (not the master cylinder, but the big pie-shaped booster behind it), and all was fine.

I think the easiest way to diagnose it is to see whether you can push the car when it'* off, but then find the brakes applying themselves as soon as you start it. (When it'* off, you'll need to dissipate residual vacuum by tromping on the pedal a few times before you try pushing the car.)

-- Andy
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Old 12-19-2005, 10:28 AM   #8
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As it turns out Andy the vacuum hose wasnt holding on properly and air would leak/enter(if this would hav persisted my pedal would hav gone soggy again..) we replaced it.... but this was not the problem..

as soon as we took off the wheel we were able to see metal dust everywhere.. my first reaction was to think that my calipper or brace had fallen off...

the bottom of the brace was eating away at my tire rims
i continued to shake the parts to see what seemed to be loose, to my surprise everything seemed to be perfectly tight on the wheel and plate, the problem was the axel(passenger side), around the boot it was complety loose and shaky,
if it wasnt for new shiny brace rubbing againts my rim; holding the broken axel.. i might have lost my transmission (only 130,000K on it.. )

now thinking back to what could have cause the problem execpt that the axel hasnt been replaced in 11years..(anyone know how long they should last??)..
there was a slight noise a bit of a thump, i would hear once in a while. This noise started after i had my winter tires put on at WALMART.. at first since the noise was minor and i couldnt feel the lil thump since it was thumping slightly on the passenger side..i didnt think much of it.. i actually thought it was the new winter tires grabbing the road. The day my axel came off in the highway.. this noise grew louder and more sudden, but i still could not feel the thump. I thought it was because my tire air was down, it was but not by much.. so i filled the air.
i am 100% that if i would have sat on the passenger side that day, i would have noticed the thump and i would hav taken the car in. but i never ride in the passenger side.

so im gonna get a new brace, balljoint and axel,
the metal dust got into the disc but did not scratch it bad, and not deep. the pads and calipper is ok, a scratch or two, and the plate is ok also.
i do not know if this was the doing of walmarts monkeys, getting 205 70s instead of the suggested 215 65s or just an old axel??..

what do you guys think?

yeah i thought it was the ABS because of the car slowdown, and sounded as if the brakes had locked on.. so right away i blamed the ABS. I did not think of an axel braking, or dislodging becuase that usually cause your car to come to a complete halt,loose a wheel or tranny...i am not a friend of ABS still
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Old 12-19-2005, 11:04 AM   #9
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When you hear a sound... check it out immediately. Find the cause....the thumping was your warning that the issue was starting.

I'm glad you got lucky and didn't get into a serious accident on this one.
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Old 12-19-2005, 11:54 AM   #10
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Yeah i feel the same,
if it wasnt for the newly replaced brace it would have gotten much much worse. :(

but i still want to find out why this happened!!
i hav 130,000K on my bonnie, should the axel go??
i want to know if this could be because im using bigass winter tires...???

thanks for all your help guys.

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