2500 RPM+ clicking?
 

I just got a 92 SSEi from a friend for $500. I know the alternator is out and have looked into the 160amp upgrade as a good upgrade. My main concern at this point would be the clicking sound that you hear over about 2000RPM. I know the oil filter was improperly installed at one point and the clicking started at the same time. I have ideas as to what may be wrong as far as lifters, or rods, but I would like to hear from some experianced owners as to there opinion. What would I be into this for as well would be handy info at this point. I only like doing things once so if I wanted to open up the car some would there be a lfter set I should look at. What are some respected vendors of aftermarket parts for these cars? I would love to keep this car on the road as it's a nice car less these bugs. Any help/ suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like lifter tick, but it's kinda far from 50 miles away to hear it. The 92 had slightly different valvetrain parts. I know it doesn't have roller rockers like my 93, but I'm not sure about the lifters. Jeffrey10x2 may be able to shed some light on this for us. I know at one point he was attempting to swap in 93 valvetrain parts on his 92.

Thanks for the input and the coversation. I'm feeling a bit more motivated about the car now.

Motivated. :lol:

I haven't heard that in years! Jarheads.

Hold your breath. Hope to see you tomorrow. Gotta find sumthin' to do, since DrJay stood me up. Damn Army. Can't count on 'em. Us Marines will have to stick together.

Hey, some of us in the Army were motivated too. At least to the fullest potential of our attitudes. Then we faked it.

Sounds familiar :wink: When it comes down to it, we Marines stick together because we're all crazy as hell :twisted:

Willwren will post some sound bits from his visit and tell you what he came up with, but long and short is the water pump may need to be looked at. Things are looking good for the car all the same, and at this point I'm looking forward to bringing this car to where it deserves to be. I see good things in it's future :shock:

Uh oh..you been bitten by the Bill Wren bug, he has quite the car eh? :wink:

Very nice car! Maybe some day for me but I've got a way to go at this point. Also I can't say enough how much I appreciate his coming out to help me.

Thats what it is like around here, people go out of their way to help out another Bonneville owner :wink:

Considering I've had the car for one day, I'm amazed at the community here. There's a simalar feeling in the club I'm in for the chrysler, but mainly because the of the cars short production period and numbers. I would have never expected that here, but don't mind it one bit either. I'm really motivated to hook this car up :twisted:

What a trip! I got bedsores on my ass. Fun though. Blew some cars off the road. They were in my way. Got into a hill climbing race with a 325i on the way back. You'll see it in the video I'm working on. Ummmmm......he got out of my way, too, but wasn't happy about it! :lol:

I'll get the engine noise video posted here very soon!

Glad you made it back in one piece. Those roads can be down-right deadly,also very fun when you have the road to yourself, but deadly. Thanks again for the help Will.

FUN roads. Love it. You'll see that video soon.

Here's the first clip of the sound:
http://home.comcast.net/~93ssei/justin92ssei.MPG

And here it is again.....watch where i put the stethescope:
http://home.comcast.net/~93ssei/justin92ssei2.MPG

According to the doctor, it's louder at the water pump, and muffled at the thermostat.....anyone hear a water pump like this? Thought it might be a balance shaft or bearing, but it's quiet on the TB end, and loud at the WP.

Scantool was also throwing a code 58, but the alt was only putting out 11 volts.

Thinking of the bearing, wouldn't you hear it on start up too?

THAT SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT I HAVE!!!! Whoohooo someone else to share my pain. Ok so here's what I know of the "similar sound" comming from mine. From reading on several web pages about "noise diagnostics" it seems to point 98% towards whats called Rod Knock. Its basically when the rod bearing is worn down so much that there is a small gap between the rod cap and the crank. That click is the rod actually banging against the crankshaft, and in more severe cases also hitting the head/valves. A rod bearing makes more noise at the oil pan than elsewhere. Hold RPMs at 2500, jerk the throttle open and let it snap closed. This will accentuate rod knock. Now's the time to starting shorting out cylinders. A rod knock will double its cadence when the spark plug associated with the cylinder making noise is pulled. Check those things out. If that is the case it sucks man but in most cases the only fix is to pull the engine and do an overhaul. In some cases you could just drop the oil pan and replace the bearing but it sounds like yours is to the point where its been beating itself up so much that the crank would be scored and needing a regrind. I really hope I'm completely wrong on what it is, for both of our sake.

Btw, this is the only confirmed audio of rod knock I can find:

http://www.ae92gts.com/downloads/randy_rod_knock2.wav

This is from the cab so its a bit muffled but you can still hear it.

EDIT> I also found this that sounds much more like what you have
http://freeautoadvice.com/sounds/rodknock.wav

That sounds like bad news, but I still don't understand why it sounds so severe at the waterpump and nowhere else? This was checked with a stethescope.

Ok, but those sound like a constant sound. On Mine it turns over fine and you hear nothing until 2000rpm?Is that possible?

Here's one of the most important questions. How huch money am I looking at having to spend? I know I don't have the time or money to put into this acr. I've got another car that does that, not to mention a family. I also know that if I sell this car for the $500 I paid, I'm a fool. What would it take to fix this problem.

Yeah unfortunately it is, it depends on the severity of it. I found a few videos of engines that make little or no noise at idle but as soon as they're reved it comes out. but like I said try pulling the plug wire associated with the front two cylinders, one at a time of course. Even put the steathescope on the oil pan and see if its louder. You could only hear mine outside the car at 2500rpm when driving and above maybe 1200 when parked but on that part of the oil pan you could faintly hear it at idle. If you want to you can drop the oil pan and literlly grap each rod cap and see if there is play in it. Unfortunately that noise sounds exactly like what I have and just like what rod knock is. I guess we'll have to see how this comes out. I hope we both just have oddly defective water pumps :). Remember that in an engine the crank can carry sound from one side to another. When I first heard my noise I thought it was an idler pulley or something on that end too cause it was so loud but from under it it sounds like the furthest cylinder from it! Check it out, lemme know what you come up with.

It really all depends on the level of damage done. A new rod bearing isn't all that much, I think you could get change for a $20 for it. You would have to pull the oil pan (not very hard) and check which one you can literally shake. Then pull the two rod cap bolts and take a look at the bearings. They'll probably be really messed up looking. Replace them and check the clearances with plastigauge and reference that to what the book says is allowable. If its within tolerances you could probably be fine like nothing ever happened. If the clearances are way off then I'm sorry but there really isn't anything besides pulling the engine, yanking the crank and rods, and re machining all of them to be within tolerances then reassembling them. Most places I've read up on this suggest simply buying a new engine if they're out of specs. This is a really nasty problem...

I just talked to the guy that I got the car from and he said that when the knock started they checked the oil and there was no metal in it. Does that make a differance in diagnosis?

Yes and no. There should be metal in the oil but most of it would have been caught up in the oil filter. At least most of the openly visable ones. If you're still using the oil filter that was on when the noise started then you can cut it open and surely see flakes of metal. I sent an oil sample of mine off to the lab to be tested as to the level of damage done. You may still be able to cut the oil filter open and see metal flakes because if it is what is happening it should stilll be beating that bearing up pretty bad. But if you do the other tests I said above and they all come out you can probably be 99% sure thats what it is.

Another problem for me. I can't do work like that where I live. I'm going to have to bring this to a mechanic or tow it to where I can do it and that's about two hours from here. I need an alternator as well. I could put a new one on but I don't want to spend the cash if It's just going to take another $3k to get the car up.

OK I think I'm just going sell it. More than I want to deal with right now. What's a good price?

hell don't ask me I paid nearly 2.5x the worth of mine haha. Honestly though if you're going to sell it a $24 rod bearing from gmpartsdirect.com and 2hrs of your time can up the asking price significantly to anyone who can regognize that sound. Honestly with knowing that sound (and if that truely is the problem) I wouldn't pay $100 for it because if not fixed it WILL throw a rod soon. That bearing is going to become so small that the crank will actually beat the rod bolts to pieces and the rod is gonna come right out the bottom end on the next stroke. Its really not too difficult to do. All you need is basic hand tools and a saturday. If the body and everything else is in good shape I'd replace that rod bearing and go get some CDC engine cleaner. Its a two step cleaner that has two bottles. One is a heavy engine degreaser and the other makes all the plastic look really shiny. $30 and 2.5hours can add another $800+++ to the asking price I'm sure because the engine will sound nice and look nearly brand new. Its amazing what this cleaner will do. I'd think about that before posting the "For Sale" sign.

I would love to get into the car to do that but I would be looking at about $100 for an alternator, the parts and the the money to rent a garage that I could do the work in. If i do it where I live I'll get evicted. I'm a disabled Vet and not exactlly the richest person so this all starts to add up. If I had the place to do it, I would be fine with it as the parts aren't that spendy and I can turn a wrench. I just don't want to get in over my head money wise or invest alot of time and money into something I can fix in the very near future. If I find that I do need a rebuild, or new motor as you said it will be 10x harder to sell the car. I really want to fix this car but I think my hands are tied right now.

Hold your horsies. I have a co-worker here who had a water pump failure on a 4.3 Vortec in a Blazer that sounded EXACTLY like that. They thought it was a rod bearing, too.

We need a little better diagnosis.

Well I gave you three ways to diagnose it. Pull the spark plug, it should rattle twice as much.. Listen on the bottom the oil pan, it should be louder. Or even pull the pan and shake the rod.

Another way......remove the belt from the SC, Alt, and water pump. Start the car and run off the battery. May need to force the SC into bypass manually by switching vacuum lines.

That can isolate the water pump (don't run very long this way).

Is this feasible? Doc, Don, acg_ssei, Fuddy, anyone? Thoughts? Even possible?

haha now you're getting too creative for your own good! I dunno how much air can make it past the supercharger, that valve isn't very big. May be enough to idle though. hahaha I dunno what to even think bout it. I guess if the supercharger will let enough air past its possible to use it to rule out the waterpump. Really I'd just pull the spark plug and if it makes more noise you know its not your water pump and all it takes is pulling a plug wire, ya know?

I'm going to go pull plugs first then try the belt and bypass idea. Those are things that don't involve fluids and won't get me into hot water where I live.

OK, after much tought, probablly too much thought, I've decided to go in 50/50 with a friend so I can cut down cost and solve issues of where to work on the car. We will more than likely sell the car or he will by me out once the car is up and running. With out having to pay labor and paying 50% for parts We will both benifit in the long run,but if nothing else one of us will have a nice ride. I'm not going to touch the car until my friend buys in, that way it's kind of like x-mas for both of us. We've shaken the box but still don't know what we have and won't until he's ready. I will keep all progress posted and still plan on being an active member here. Thanks again to all for your imput on this. It was instrumental in the decision making process.

My goof on the bypass.....you don't have to mess with the alt. That belt only runs the WP, SC, and AC.

I noticed that already but we are still going to hold off until my partner, Joe, is ready. We should be under the hood come Friday or next week. I'm also still waiting on the title so I should let it rest until then. Besides, I have to install a gauge pod with a/f meter and new boost gauge on my other car today. As most know they are indespensable tools with a turbo. I was talking to the gent I got them from and he works with ast pullies? I'm not sure of the brands for this cars applications but he said he could give me a break on prices. I'll keep you all posted.

What were you when you got out of the Corps?, Gunney, Top Sgt? Ex USN E-6. Gator Navy.

Cpl After I injured myself and they realized I couldn't reenlist let alone finish my current contract I became un-promotable. I got to spend over a year in the hospital and made the cutting score but was denide the rank, because they knew I was going to be medically retired. That was a kick in the rear for me being I busted tail to be where I was to begin with. http://webpages.charter.net/justind23/SECGDBNINS.jpg

Sorry to hear that. I am on a medical leave of absence from my flying duties now. Got another year and a half to go before I can get my medical certificate back. Semper Fi.

I certainlly didn't think my career would end like that. I'd have liked tho become an officer eventually but it just wasn't in the cards for me. I hope things work out for you. I know what you must be going thru not being able to get that "fix". I know I miss the feeling.