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1987-1991 Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88 or Buick Le Sabre Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 10-27-2004, 04:01 PM   #1
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My vacuum modulator popped right off yesterday.. and of course exposing a big ol' hole in the tranny, and of course letting all the ATF come right out. I reinstalled the modulator, filled her up [I carry several quarts of every fluid my car needs, in the trunk]. Drove another 2 miles.. and by then the tranny was slipping horribly, and I just couldn't go on any further. Af that point, I lost all the fluid, got the car towed home. Now.. it was the TC slipping.. so, how bad is this? What could I have broken? And how can I go about fixing it? Since i'm not going to be taking the car out for the rest of the winter.. I have all this time now to do the top end rebuild, along with whatever work the tranny will need. However, removing the tranny wouldn't be easy, and I don't think i'd be up to the task, but if it isn't in the condition to run, then I will be forced to [of course].


-justin
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Old 10-27-2004, 04:17 PM   #2
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I don't know too much about trannys, but from the problems you are having now, and the problems you have had in the past ... I would say it'* time for that whole thing to get a rebuild.
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Old 10-27-2004, 05:12 PM   #3
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Am I able to pull the tranny with the engine in? I can get a rebuild kit from JCW for $100, and i'd totally do it myself.. just because I want to learn more about our trannys.. and I feel daring .

Also, can one 14 year old pull this off? because I don't have friends.. my mom is crazy, and my dad is a deadbeat, so it'* all me here.

EDIT: This is the rebuild kit, if it matters http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...X/appId-435685


-justin
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Old 10-27-2004, 05:28 PM   #4
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You feel daring, but an automagic transmission isn't just one of those look-at-the-manual-and-do things



... even though the '83 Toyota Supra factory manual I have tells you how to remove the tranny and replace clutch packs.


At your own risk is all I can say =\
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Old 10-27-2004, 05:55 PM   #5
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My FSM has a complete breakdown of the tranny, and everything I would ever need.. and quite a bit more than I understand. I see quite a few special tools I'll need.. I am going to buy a Haynes tranny rebuild book.. and see what that has to say. You know how haynes is much more "real world" in their explainations.. and make it easier to understand than the very complicated FSM.


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Old 10-27-2004, 06:44 PM   #6
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An FSM probably won't solve all your problems. It takes a lot of skill and experience to work on an auto tranny. They are very complex.

Heck, at my dad'* shop when there is a serious tranny problem, they send it to some specialists down the road. The shop can easily do it, but the specialists can spend their time concentrating on one thing.

I would have a trained professional do it.
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Old 10-27-2004, 06:54 PM   #7
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That costs a lot of $$$, plus i've heard FWD trannies are hit or miss.. and i'd rather miss it myself, then someone else.

EDIT: and I know Automatic transmissions aren't for the common idiot. My dad rebuilt his C6 a couple years ago. And rebuild a turbo 400 when in HS. I just wish I could confide in him, because he would probably give some support.. informativly.


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Old 10-27-2004, 08:07 PM   #8
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Try looking here for tranny parts if your going to do it youself -
www.bulkpart.com
They also have rebuild manuals that are years ahead of any Haynes manual. The Haynes would be good to start with, but once your actually in the tranny the more detailed manual will really help. Do it yourself if you feel it need rebuilding. Judging by your posts, you are more than capable of doing it yourself, you know more now at 14 than most people twice your age do In addition, you'll do it at a fraction of the price & could make some easy $$ on the side rebuilding & selling if you really enjoy it.

The modulator regulates line pressure through the trans and (clearly) operates off vacuum. The cannister has a spring loaded plunger which moves a spool valve in & out by engine vacuum.
What propbably happened was the clamp holding the modulator came off somehow (?) and you tranny fluid shot out of the hole. Trannies operate under very high fluid pressure, no pressure, no go. You lost a ton of fluid very quickly, its doubtful you did major damage if you shut it off quickly. Yes there could be some damage, but there are lots of other ways to hurt it worse! If it was in bad shape to begin with then this could have done it in. Anyway... Possible damage would be to the clutches (overheating & running "dry") and possibly the pump if it ran dry for any length of time. Torque converters are very durable, its OK.

I'm still wondering how the modulator came off in the first place! Totally off? What happened to the "Y" shaped clamp that holds it? Was there a O-ring on it when you found it hanging off the trans?

I've built many RWD trannies for my Z28 and others, but never done a Bonneville tranny, so I dont know how much help I would be here. The same principals would apply, just some of the tools would be different. Count on needing very good internal & external snap ring pliers, basic measuring gauges (micrometers & dial gauge), a solvent tank for cleaning parts and a big, clean work area. [/url]
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Old 10-27-2004, 08:41 PM   #9
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Well.. partially my fault why the modulator came off. I was rushing a little, and obviously didn't tighten down the bolt that held the clamp in place [it was somewhat of a Y shape]. I guess after driving 20 miles that bolt because loose.. and after driving a little, the modulator just popped right off. The oring was there originally when it came out, but now I can't find it.. I don't remember taking it out when the car was towed, so I guess it fell off then, or something. I cant find the bolt, oring, or clamp.. none of it, so all that stuff fell off.

My FSM has a VERY detailed description of everything I will need. It has the exact data I will need for calculating end play and balancing everything, and such. I just need something with a little real world explaination.. where its like do this to replace this type stuff. That way I can better understand all the info the FSM has to offer.

When you talk about the pump failing if it ran dry for any length of time.. the car ran maybe 100ft after I had no power being put down to the ground. I shut the car off immediatly after I realized I was screwed.. and just let it coast in neutral. The clutches need replacing.. I just don't trust them.. for some reason I think they were part of my slipping problem, and would feel much more comfortable replacing them.. unless they were like in mint condition.. which I'm sure they won't, I have driven the car.

When you talk about doing a lot of RWD trannies.. did you need like 50 specialty tools? Like my FSM lists these tools:

1. Transmission Support Fixture Base
2. Forward Clutch Spring Compressor
3. Dial Indicator Stand and Guide Pin Set
4. Output Shaft Alignment and Loading Tool
5. Converter Seal Installer
6. Transmission Support Fixture
7. Axle Seal Installer
8. Bearing Installer/Drive Sprocket Support
9. Input Shaft End Play Tool
10. Thermo Element Height Gauge
11. Input Seal Installer
12. Handle
13. Compressor Screw and Frame
14. Cooler Flusher
15. Aneroid Modulator Checking Tool
16. Bushing Installer
17. Bushing and Universal Remover Set
18. Clutch Assembly/ Final Drive Remover and Installer
19. Input Clutch Piston Seal Protector
20. Output Shaft Loading Tool Adaptor
21. Driven SProcket Support Bearing Installer
22. Adaptor Plug
23. Universal Remover
24. #40 Torx Bit or Equivilent
25. Torque Converter End-Play Fixture
26. "C" Ring Remover/Installer Output Shaft
27. Pump Bearing - Installer and Remover
28. Turbine Shaft Seal Installers and Sizer
29. 1-2 and Reverst Bands Apply Pin Gauge
30. Third Clutch Piston Seal and Protector
31. Left Side Axle Seal Installer
32. Driven Sprocket Support Bearing Remover

Wow, that was a lot of typing.. and a lot of tools. Anyways, I know there are going to be definate essentials.. like the torx bit, bearing removers/installers.. but the other stuff seems like it isn't essential.. like #25.. I've seen people install those suckers by just sliding them on. Anyways.. I can barely afford the 18mm socket I just bought.. so I don't know how much of that stuff I can afford. I guess that is another reason why I am questioning the essentiability [I think I just made that word up..] of these tools.

[quote2x4]Judging by your posts, you are more than capable of doing it yourself, you know more now at 14 than most people twice your age do[/quote]

Hardly, I have a LOT to learn.. but I most certainly have come a long way too. From thinking my car had a distributor to installing a '93 ICM + Accel Coils. From swearing that the car didn't have two bolts on the tstat housing.. and saying GM is so stupid for forgetting to drill an extra hole, to swearing that they actually didn't have two bolts. However, I am here to learn, and that is most certainly what I am doing here at BC.

Also, nobody has said anything about if I can remove the tranny with the engine still in the car? Because if I have to remove the engine, I can just kiss this whole Idea goodbye.


-justin
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Old 10-28-2004, 01:14 AM   #10
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You have fried all the friction material off the bands. It'* toast.

You don't not have an inkling of the involved process in rebuilding FWD transmissions. No gearhead here has ever attempted it. Don't waste your money!

Get a lower mileage trans from the wrecker, or have it professionally rebuilt.
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