More engine mounts. IDEAS please! - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1987-1991 Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88 or Buick Le Sabre Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-10-2007, 01:32 AM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wjcollier07 is on a distinguished road
Default More engine mounts. IDEAS please!

Here is the thing, most of you know about my rotting out subframe mounts. I was curious. To see if I could prolong this from breaking prematurely. You know the core braces and engine dogbones installed on W bodies and A bodies? Well I know the front on an H-body is not strong enough to hold it alone, so why no me fabricate some holes and such and work out a single dogbone engine mount on my block. Now the thing is that I probably have no problem making the holes in the sheet metal, but can anyone tell me if those 3800s that have those dogbones have them WELDED to the block or are they bolted on? Also. Were there any W bodies or other that had the LN3 that would have a bolt on brace.

I really don't have the money to get another car right now, all I need to do is prolong it for a while until I CAN afford to get another.
wjcollier07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2007, 07:07 AM   #2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Three Oaks, Michigan
Posts: 4,879
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
opensourceguy is on a distinguished road
Default

W-body 3800s are L27s, not LN3s. I would imagine that with enough skill you could fabricate a dogbone mount, or retrofit a W-body one on there. They are bolted on, it'* kinda like threading a bolt opposite to the dogbone and opposite of the other side, [one side _ one side | ). Then rubber in between the 'bone itself and the bolts you have holding it all together. Only thing though, I'm not sure if our top support [right by the radiator] is as strong as a W-body'*, as in i'm not sure it wouldn't just rip that whole piece out with engine torque. Might want to do some investigating into that one.
opensourceguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2007, 06:07 PM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wjcollier07 is on a distinguished road
Default

I know that. Thats why I said it would require braces just like the W bodies. The Ws nor the As are strong enough, and thats the reason for the braces, I'm sure the braces would allow the H body'* support to be just as strong. The only problem i see is that on A bodies and W bodies, the radiator sits down lower allowing the brace to sit over the top of it safely. And Yeah, I know how they are constructed. Remember, I owned an A body. Anyways. The only problem i see is the height of that radiator. thats it.

But all I'm wondering is if there are provisions on the LN3 for a front engine mount. Thats all. And what would be required in making it work?
wjcollier07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2007, 06:46 PM   #4
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Three Oaks, Michigan
Posts: 4,879
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
opensourceguy is on a distinguished road
Default

Naw, but I bet the strongest part on that motor is where the engine hoist hooks are, attached at the exhaust manifold bolts. That'* where I would want it bolted to. If you go with the strut bracing like on W-bodies, that won't do squat either. That'* for handling, not dogbone mounts. The question of integrity is if you bolt and/or weld an engine mount to that 1/8" metal right above the rad [or to the side of it, whatever], I bet it will just rip out of that metal. Not detach it from the fender. I'm not sure how I would go about reinforcing it other than doubling the thickness of that metal. My corsy has a dogbone mount on the bottom of the core support, if it weren't so snowy i would go look how thick taht metal is... maybe i'll look for pics or something.
opensourceguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2007, 06:20 AM   #5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wjcollier07 is on a distinguished road
Default

just so other people know what i'm talking about

the two braces that come off the fender and bolt to the core support and the dogbone on the engine





i guess its pretty evident that the radiator sits underneath the core support on a w body and on an h body it sits behind it because of the lack of metal. i see where this could co wrong if not fabricated correctly
wjcollier07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2007, 07:58 AM   #6
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS

Expert Gearhead
 
BillBoost37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Enfield, CT
Posts: 41,391
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of light
Default

John...i'm actually looking into a dogbone mount myself. I haven't tested the radiator support or looked at it closely to determine how much support it will be able to provide.

However, it will need to be at least a certain strength or the first time you put the car in gear...you'll rip the support. Clearing the radiator is another factor. We have a plastic top rad hold down that appears it will be in the way. Captain Mod It, has no issue cutting and reshaping this plastic. Again though...if the rad support is simply going to rip out...it'* not worth trying.

You might need to strengthen the support. Honestly, my thoughts are if the car is rusting and coming apart that quick. Save the money and get something else. It won't be safe to drive, and we'd be more concerned about your safety than if the motor is going to torque a little.

As well..I drove about 2 weeks on a failing trans mount. As long as you don't put the pedal to the floor from every stop, it should stay where it is.
BillBoost37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2007, 09:38 AM   #7
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

The radiator core support was never designed to use dogbones and is too weak. It'* only thin sheetmetal with no reinforcement.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 05:56 PM   #8
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick.
Posts: 380
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Timothy's Buick is on a distinguished road
Default

Your subframe mounts have rotted? Replace them! Engine mounts rotted? Replace them too. These cars really don't need a top dogbone mount. I think that as long as you have good mounts, no matter the age, the car will shift smooth.

Look, if they're that bad, you should not be driving the car. I hate to see what else has gone bad under there. You really don't wanna risk an accident or something worse. That kind of stuff can be easy to replace. If you had a shop do it, it'd be about 2 hours labour by an experienced guy, plus the cost of parts. Its prolly a 300-400 dollar deal, but the improvement would definitly be worth it, and the car'* life will be prolonged significantly.

I find replacing worn out suspension bushings, engine mounts, and worn out subframe bushings, makes a huge difference in the way a car feels. Its not that hard with the right tools. Heck, If I were closer, i'd be able to help ya do em.

Anyway, nuff said.
Timothy's Buick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 09:28 PM   #9
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Philly
Posts: 297
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
KEOTOK is on a distinguished road
Default

I've seen a Cavalier somewhere that had two steel bars welded vertically to the subframe then another crossbeam welded to those above the radiator support. The dogbones were bolted to the crossbeam.
KEOTOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 11:46 PM   #10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wjcollier07 is on a distinguished road
Default

well the only thing is...i don't HAVE another real option but to drive the car. i dont have the money to replace the car so eh. And Tim, its not the mounts, its the unibody of the car that the mounts are attached to that is gone. its the salt damage, thats all. so anyways, we'll see. thanks for the suggestions guys, i'll just keep my eyes peeled for a cheap car nearby.
wjcollier07 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking of producing solid-poly engine mounts and trans mounts for our cars. ov3rclock3d 2000-2005 3 09-20-2012 03:02 PM
Engine/tranny mounts, series II mounts work in series I car? dbtk2 Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 1 09-11-2008 07:53 AM
motor mounts and tranny mounts? shrek Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 10 11-06-2006 10:22 PM
Engine Mounts / Motor Mounts zuluhead 2000-2005 10 11-06-2005 11:22 AM
Engine mounts and transmission mounts 3.8 SFI 88 vs 3800 SI killer_cr80r Lounge 2 04-14-2004 06:18 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:03 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.