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1987-1991 Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88 or Buick Le Sabre Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 07-26-2004, 09:53 AM   #11
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Correct me if I'm wrong but you want 4.2 - 4.6 volts on the TPS (key on at idle position) for a C motor. Unless 87 had different spec.
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Old 07-26-2004, 10:09 AM   #12
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The book i have says between 0.33 and 0.46 volts measured between B & C with the key ON. When full throttle it goes up to 4.8 volts. Guess mine is just an old system.
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Old 07-26-2004, 12:12 PM   #13
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.39-.42v at idle and over 4.2 v at WOT is the range to look for.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:26 AM   #14
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Cool then. I got it right! Much better to do it this way and know it'* right than just guessing. Car is still running good. No stalling and dying going on. It did drive a little funny right after clearing the memory, but I attribute that to relearning process.
Thanks everyone for the help.
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Old 07-31-2004, 12:45 PM   #15
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Peice of *@#! car!! It did it again. Car was sitting at redlight and died again. Started right back up. I was not in the car at the time, so I couldn't check anything. I was driving it last night and felt a jerk. It did it 3 different times. Just one sudden jerk and nothing else.
What else to do with this dang car? The crusher?
Help, I've ran out of ideas to check.
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Old 07-31-2004, 02:31 PM   #16
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I just got back in from driving the car after it did it again to my wife 1/2 mile from the house. She brought it back and got in her car. I took it out and ragged the crap out of it. Redline shifting, giving it gas and holding the brake at redlights. More redline shifting and brought it back on home. No problems whatsoever. Was very fun peeling the tires though. I just don't get it.
I know it sounds like a crank sensor, but I just replaced it about a month ago. The last one broke off, did not fail electrically. I have checked just about everything. I even pulled the wires from he fuel relay to see if it stalls immediatly and it does not. It will run a minute on the residual fuel pressure. Has to be ignition related, right?? Help, I'm running out of patience witht his car.
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Old 07-31-2004, 09:11 PM   #17
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I don't know where your from but have you checked for water in the fuel?
Beleive it or not its a big problem during the hot humid weather for gas refiners.
Adding a simple bottle of isapropal gas dryer usually does the trick.
Also check all ground connections especially the engine and fuel rail ground.
PCM connector also. PCM'* were junk in 87. Try a replacement from a bone yard or
rebuilt.
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Old 08-01-2004, 03:50 AM   #18
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Thanks for the waterin the fuel problem tip. It makes sense to me. I do notice that every vehicle I drive seems to have fuel related performance problems. I live in coastal Mississippi and it has been very hot and humid here lately. I will try adding alcohol to all my vehicles when I fill up next time and see how they do.
Well she finally did it to me tonight. It is surely ignition related. No spark condition when being cranked and took about 10 minutes before it would crank this time. Fuel pump ran OK, had gas at fitting, no spark. It finally cranked after waiting, but this time it idled low and almost wanted to stall. Shut it down and restarted again, this time it idles OK. Drove off and drove it 10 miles down the highway at 65mph. It made the hard jerk, almost as if the ignition had shut down and restarted very quickly. I doubt it'* the ignition switch because if I turn the ignition switch Off and On quicky, it takes about a second before it starts back up. This was a very sudden Jerk of the ignition system.
After driving those 10 miles at 65mph, it stalled while coasting to the redlight at the end of the road. Started right back up, idling Ok. Drove back home 5 miles stop and go with not one problem until......
Backed car to the back of the driveway (it'* new permanet residence now cause I don't trust her). Just for giggles, I turned the wheel to the right and it dropped RPM to 300-400 and then it shot up to 1500 and stayed there for about 2 seconds before idling back down. Turned the wheel again testing the pressure switch a few times and it idled as expected. Aggravating,@#%@!! car!!!
Could a PCM be causing this? How about the ESC up on the firewall? Those are still original.
Once again, much thanks for all the help given so far. I have gotten a lot of stuff sorted through and fixed by all the help ya'll have given me.
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Old 08-01-2004, 08:12 PM   #19
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Thanks Jr3800, I wish I had another set of eyes here as well. I'm not sure what type my ignition is other than Delco with the 3 seperate coils that can be replace individually. The ICM is under those. There is also an ESC module on the firewall that my Chiltons doesn't really explain very well. I have one set of rings on my harmonic balancer instead of 2 like the newer ones. It has a cam sensor mounted under the water pump somehow. I have replaced the crank sensor before this problem occured. The crank sensor just broke off when my wife started it one day. It ran for 2 weeks OK after that and then I started throwing parts at it. It'* all I can do with the limited function of the OBD1 computer. I guess the PCM or that little ESC module on the firewall will be the next to be replaced. Is the computer going to come with an updated code that may help it run better with today'* higher Interstate speeds than were in 87? This might be worth just changing anyway. To try to remedy the problem I have already replaced the ICM, cleaned the TB and IAC. Set the TPS and verified coolant, intake air temp and O2 signals. Checked the MAF by tapping on it and even cleaned the element with a Q-tip and alcohol. This made a tremendous difference on throttle response but still have the random stalling problem. Whatever it is is getting worse and should fail completely soon I guess.
You know, the car has had a slight miss for years, but was just considered normal. I have checked the coils resistance readings and all are the same. The wires are farily new Bosch Supreme and look good, the plugs are new Rapidfire. I just can't see a secondary igniton problem causing this to happen. But still has a slight tremor tot he idle that is unexplainable. the timing gears were changed as PM at 80k and steel gears were used instead of plastic. My dad did the job so that should be OK. Nothing else has ever been done to this car other than a new crank sensor every couple of years. This just doesn't make sense. If it were a connector it wouldn't heal itself by cooling would it? This would have to be a componet failure? Right?
:(
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Old 08-01-2004, 10:07 PM   #20
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Sounds like a code "3" engine last used in '87, were quite a few changes with the code "C" that came out that year.

All pre-1995 engines were designed for a very low torque peak, probably to be able to curise in lockup/OD at 55 mph or about 1500 rpm.

Is an intergral Delco triple coils and ignition module, just the early style for the single ring crank sensor - only the coils interchange with the later unit, the 15 wire connector is keyed differently than the later unitis (two ring Magnavox and Delco are keyed the same.

You should not be going through crank sensors like that unless they are not adjusted correctly or the ring on the crank balancer has excessive runout. It needs to be looked at.
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