Is it the Fuel Pump? (Just drove her, no parts necessary!) - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1987-1991 Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88 or Buick Le Sabre Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 07-22-2007, 05:17 PM   #21
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I threw a multimeter on the ICM connector after consulting with Haynes for what some key wires are. It gets power from some fuse somewhere that I can't find, so that'* good. It also gets a timing signal from the ECM, or voltage to that wire at least, so that'* also good.

Then I decided to give it another crank or 20 with some Meijer brand starting fluid in it, because it really should be sparking. And I did get it to sputter a few times! Not anything that could be described as running, but there were definitely some correctly-timed cylinder-fires in there.

So I DO have spark, sometimes. It'* just a really crappy spark, or something. I still say that it'* not sparking while the engine is cranking, which might explain why I saw no spark earlier when I had a plug out.

I guess right now, I'd say I have crappy fuel pressure, and crappy spark. It might run with either one, but apparently not with both at once. The fuel thing can be fixed, probably for around $100-$120. But I can't imagine what'* wrong with the ignition that makes it just perform poorly?

I'm looking into finding a replacement already, but it would be nice to get her running to sell, lest I have to take a lot less for her.
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Old 07-22-2007, 08:00 PM   #22
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Jon, I am sure someone else will chime in too, but my money is on the crank sensor.
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Old 07-22-2007, 08:36 PM   #23
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Think so? Could be, I guess. But isn't it odd that I have some spark then? I thought that a dead crank sensor was a DEAD crank sensor?

Well, I guess there'* only so many things that could be wrong, and that'* one of the few left.

Any way of testing one of those, or is it just a "replace and see" thing?

And it looks like by the book, you have to remove the crank pulley/damper. Any cheats to avoid that, or is that the way it is?

Thanks for all the input so far guys.
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Old 07-22-2007, 08:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theJMFC
Think so? Could be, I guess. But isn't it odd that I have some spark then? I thought that a dead crank sensor was a DEAD crank sensor?

Well, I guess there'* only so many things that could be wrong, and that'* one of the few left.

Any way of testing one of those, or is it just a "replace and see" thing?

And it looks like by the book, you have to remove the crank pulley/damper. Any cheats to avoid that, or is that the way it is?

Thanks for all the input so far guys.
I'm not aware of a shortcut, I had to pull the balancer. If there is an easy way, I didnt find it.

Not sure how it would be tested either.

When ours failed, the spark was really weak and yellow, kinda random. Not sure why one would show up in the first place, but sensor fixed the problem.
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:50 AM   #25
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Just a little update...

Today I went out turned on the key to RUN, and listened to the relay clicking for a while. It is the fuel pump relay, I can feel it.

Then I tried starting it again a few times. Afterward, I could smell fuel, so I'm still thinking that ignition is what'* keeping it dead at the moment.

After that, I pulled out the ECU, and took the cover off of that. Looks like it'* not it'* first ECU (there'* a number scratched off and replaced by another, handwritten), and I seem to recall that from the maintenance records I have. Everything looks and smells okay in there, but I know that'* not necessarily the final answer to it. My brother has a olds 88 of that era that'* just parked and beat up, so I might be able to convince him to let me "borrow" his ECU for some testing.

I'm a little hesitant to yank the crank pulley. I'll see if I can eliminate the ECU first.

Even if the ECU isn't the problem, I'm half tempted to put all the parts back where they came from and just see what I can sell it for as-is. The difference in price that a running rusty, dusty pink paint, '89 Bonneville fetches vs. what a non-running rusty, dusty pink paint, '89 Bonneville fetches might not be worth the blood, sweat and tears it seems to be requiring to make it run.

What do you suppose it'* worth as it sets? If I were to put it on Craigslist, and just honestly say that it won't start, might be fuel, might be ignition, might be both... What would you ask for it?

Here'* a general overview of the car'* faults and features:

Clearcoat is nothing but a white dusty residue on the entire top surface of the car. Sides still look mostly shiny. Rust isn't too visible with doors closed, but it is there when you open the fronts up. And over the rear wheels and on the trunk lid, but not too bad. No serious dents. All glass good.

Inside is basic, but clean. I'd put back in the stock radio, stock mirror.

Engine and transmission were always fine, until very recently.

I'd love to keep the tires, which still have plenty of tread... but for the sake of this, lets assume that the tires are left on there. They have a lot of life left in them.

So yeah... not running, what'* that worth? $200? $300? $75?

If I couldn't get a private party to pay $200 for it, I'd probably take every part I'd ever want off of it, good tires included, and have it towed away...
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:37 PM   #26
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Non-running, these cars really aren't worth much unfortunately. BUt you never know... might find someone crazy like me who like to tinker with such things and are willing to fix it.

There is a shortcut in getting the crank pulley off, by the way. The official GM way to do it is to use a large impact gun. However, if you put a socket on a breaker bar, position the bar against the subframe, remove all the spark plug boots, and turn over the motor then the force of the engine turning over should break the bolt loose.

After you've got the balancer off its a piece of cake to put on a new sensor. The sensor is about $30, so by the time you get the car jacked up, tire off, and balancer off... I'd say 2 or 3 hours tops with beer breaks at a cost of $30 (and beer).

If i were you, I'd try to get it running and just keep the car till it rusts into an oblivion as they really aren't worth selling.

Oh, one more thought: Could the ICM for the delco packs be bad? You could swap back in your old Magnavox style coil packs and ICM just to eliminate that as a possible fault.
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:59 PM   #27
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Right, I'd forgotten about the breaker-bar-on-the-subframe trick. Might be easier than trying to gain access to getting my impact in there.

The ICM has been eliminated already. It and the coils work great on my LeSabre. It'* up there somewhere, though I know there'* a lot to read...
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Old 07-28-2007, 12:55 AM   #28
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Oops, must have missed tha about the ICMt when I scanned it.

Hmm... yeah, I'd say its time to change out the crank sensor. When they go, they do weird things to cars, including no-starts.
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:57 AM   #29
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Here'* an update for those of you on the edge of your desk chairs at work, waiting for a progress report:

I think I'm going to say "screw the diagnostics" for a bit and just try throwing a new crank sensor at it. My ghetto test of the sensor showed that it was at least semi-functioning, but that doesn't mean it'* working right, or well.

So I might go at that this weekend.

Anyone know what size socket I need for that crank nut? I have a 24mm, I think, and that catches, but is loose. It would strip for sure. I'd put a caliper on it, but I have no caliper...

<edit> Actually, my socket was a 30mm. Using a vise-grips as a caliper, I measure it to be about 28mm. So for future reference, it seems like it'* a 28mm socket that we need to do this.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:56 PM   #30
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I used a 1-1/8" socket & it seemed to fit fine. A 28mm would be about .022 smaller & I'm not sure if that would have fit.
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