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Old 11-13-2006, 02:18 PM   #1
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Default Engine cranks, wont start, question about humming noise

Driving home, temp gauge shows engine getting warm, kicked on heat and temp went down and stayed in normal range. 10 miles later a hear a slight pinging noise, engine stutters then quits.

At this point the engine cranks but wont start. There is no mechanical pinging noise or clanking, which tells me that at least the valves and valve train are not damaged. I checked through the valve cover while the engine was being turned over and the rockers are moving, so the timing chain is at least in one piece. I checked the injectors and I have 12 volts there. I checked the plugs and I am getting spark. The plugs also smell of fuel so it would seem I am getting fuel. The fuel pump makes the normal running sound and stops when the ignition is turned on. I checked the ECM and I have no error codes. I dumped the oil and found no water, which is good.

The one thing I cannot figure is that there is an electrical hum when the ignition is turned on. The only thing I have been able to find on it so far is that if i unhook the electrical connector on the alternator the hum stops. Not sure if this is related to my starting problems or not. The amp gauge has always shown good when the engine is running so I am pretty sure that the alternator is working fine.

The only thought I have on this is that maybe the damper on the timing chain is worn or gave way. As a cavaet, there were no warning signs though. That'* was puzzles me. Normally if the timing chain or damper is going the timing starts to get off and there should be rough running or at least signs that timing is starting to get off, not just this sudden stoppage.

Anyway, ideas would be very helpful, before I venture into disassembling the cover to get to the timing chain. Thanks in advance.
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Old 11-13-2006, 05:16 PM   #2
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More testing done. The injectors have 12 v and the crankshaft and camshaft sensors have 10 v. I then pulled the ignition coil pack and found each of the secondary with in the range, but each of the primary were at 4 ohms. If I am correct in reading the tech info on the ignition coils troubleshooting guide there is only supposed to be around 0.4 ohms correct?

Also, when pulling the ignition coil pack there was the green insulating stuff melted all over the connectors and wiring. So i am not sure that the ignition coils were actually making contact anymore.

Sure needing some guidance here. I think that the coil pack might be bad but not entirely sure.
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Old 11-13-2006, 05:37 PM   #3
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Ok, this one must have been missed by the '87-91 guys, and it'* not my forte, but IIRC, the coils packs on these have been known to fail. Based on your (very good) diagnosis and description, it sure sounds to me like you're experiencing coil pack failure.

Hang in there until one of the others shows up, 'cause there are a few here with plenty of experince with these, including advice as to where to get used ones and how to easily swap/upgrade to better coils.

There is quite a bit of information already available oon this in the threads, so a couple quick searches might help you. Use Search

In the meantime, here'* the data from TECHINFO above:
Quote:
The resistance readings for all three primary windings should be similar to each other and within the ranges shown in the table below.

Year….Manufacturer….Engine RPO…..Primary (ohms)……… Secondary (k-ohm)

86-91......Magnavox.....…......LN3..……......0.5-0.8.....….……………....9.0-12.0

91-92.5...Magnavox.…….......L27......……..0.5-0.8....………….…….....9.0-12.0

92.5-94....Delco.…….............L27......……. 0.5-0.9....…………..……......5.0-8.0

92-95…....Delco.…….............L67……...…..0.5.-0.9....………………......5.0-8.0

96-99…....Delco.…….............L67……...…..0.5-0.9.………………..........5.0-8-0

95-99…....Delco..…................L36....……….0.5-0.9....………………........5.0-8.0

86-99.........MSD*.....................ALL........... ........0.35...................................... ..7.8

* MSD data as specified by manufacturer.
I'd do some more searching for you, but gotta run right now.
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:10 PM   #4
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Update.....just to make sure that I did the coil reading right I went out and tested the coils again and found that the coils are now testing 1.1 ohms on the primary'*. I cleaned the connections, made a new connector for the common side on the number 1 connector (cause it was encased in that green stuff and I could not get it all cleaned off). I reinstalled the ignition coil pack and tried starting again. The behavior now is that it seems like it wants to start but just not getting enough spark, which would tend to agree with the fact that the primary coil is testing at 1.1 ohms which is more resistance than is supposed to be there and hence a weaker spark. I am fairly certain this is correct thinking.

Which coil would be better?
Borg Warner e45
Magnavox d552
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Old 11-13-2006, 07:39 PM   #5
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If you need coil packs, which it sounds like you do. You have a couple options. You can either get Magnivox coils. Or you can get some Delco coils from the Series I engine. They have a hotter spark than the Magnivox ones.

To assist you here, and save you a BUNCH of money, you would be well off buying one of the two from another member.

I have a set of Magnivox coils if you want them.

Or

PM BillBoost37 for a set of Delco coils from a series I engine. They are direct bolt up to our backing plate with the same ignition plug.

Now if you don't have the money, I will charge you 1/3 less than what ever Bill wants you charge you for his.

Here are the coils that I have for sale...


And here are what the coils would look like installed on your car that you woule get from BillBoost.

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Old 11-14-2006, 04:35 PM   #6
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I usually just try pouring 1/2-1 oz of gas into the manifold (use one of the octopus lines) and crank - if it fires, there is a fuel problem. If not, it is ignition.

Reason I would try this first is that your symptoms sound a lot like a waaay lean engine.

All of my cars have Delco ignitions, I find them able to fire a .060 gap and are much more reliable (and can change just one coil).
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Old 11-14-2006, 08:28 PM   #7
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yeah, bill said he could get me a series 1 delco ignition module and coils and everything you need to put it in for about $35 i think. i never bought one cuz i didnt have the cash but im sure he would give u the same deal send him a pm for sure
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Old 11-17-2006, 12:38 AM   #8
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Well fellas....this one took an odd twist tonight. I was reading other posts to see if I could dredge up some information on how to make sure that the ICM was good. In some of the threads that I read I found that an indication that everything up to the coils was good was that the tachometer would move. So I thought to myself...hey I'll go check that. So I got ready to go outside, its only 30 degrees, grab my keys and head out to the garage. I hook up the battery. (I had unhooked it to allow the computer to reset itself). I get in and turn it over to watch the tach move and low and behold it started. It coughed once but smoothed out and ran fine for the 20 seconds or so I let it run. Was completely shocked so I turned it off just to make sure it wouldnt hurt anything. Guys I am completely puzzled on this one.

What in the world is happening?
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:51 AM   #9
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Well, quite a few electrical problems have been resolved by checking and cleaning the battery connections. You may have inadvertantly created a better connection. Take your battery cables off and clean the connections real well, including under the boots. Check the other ends for corrosion also.
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Old 11-18-2006, 08:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsh
Well fellas....this one took an odd twist tonight. I was reading other posts to see if I could dredge up some information on how to make sure that the ICM was good. In some of the threads that I read I found that an indication that everything up to the coils was good was that the tachometer would move. So I thought to myself...hey I'll go check that. So I got ready to go outside, its only 30 degrees, grab my keys and head out to the garage. I hook up the battery. (I had unhooked it to allow the computer to reset itself). I get in and turn it over to watch the tach move and low and behold it started. It coughed once but smoothed out and ran fine for the 20 seconds or so I let it run. Was completely shocked so I turned it off just to make sure it wouldnt hurt anything. Guys I am completely puzzled on this one.

What in the world is happening?
It fired up with ECM being all melted? Mine did this and one of the mag coils got hot, never got it to crank again with that ECM.
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