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1987-1991 Parley with regards to your 1987 to 1991 Bonneville, Olds 88 or Buick Le Sabre Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 09-22-2004, 11:31 PM   #21
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I'm showing this for the location description for both the ABS pump relay and the electronic brake control relay:

LH rear corner of engine compartment, behind strut tower

I'd send you a diagram but it is worse then the written description.
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Old 09-22-2004, 11:32 PM   #22
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You know what guys, i'm going to wing it. I am a devote christian, and if God has my brakes fail, then so be it. I will address this problem later. I am thinking the accumulator is shot, but it will be good enough. I am quoting from that site: "Most systems w/ failing or failed Accumulators give lower than average results. 1/2 or 1 pump! THE PUMP WILL SOON FAIL due to excess running." The pump wasn't running all the time when I was working on her, probably just the last 30 minutes of me working. Hopefully she will last another 30 minutes of driving. If not.. "flinstoning it" is the only thing i'll be able to do. I will make sure I won't do any hard braking, and take it easy. I know where all the stop signs and such are, so i will be prepared ahead of time to stop slowly, and allow engine drag and such to aid in my stop. Thanks guys for your quick responses!


-justin
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Old 09-23-2004, 09:55 PM   #23
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Just a little update for your guys. Took 'er out at 2:30 [promptly after school], got to the HS [back from where I came] at 2:45. During that time I took it very easy, nothing fast or anything. Picked up my lady friend, and came back to my house. We sucessfully scared the town with my heavy foot on the way back. At 7:15, I was going to bring her home, at which she started right up, and performed like a mother [a mother with a really heavy foot that is ]. Got her home at 7:45, [i took the long way there]. And hauled my *** home which I got home just after 8:00. All of which during this time, I sucessfully showed off every minute I could. I peeled out [yes my MAF screen pulled, gave me that extra edge]. It wasn't anything big, but it was the sweetest sound I could ever hear. I must say though.. she really performed damn good, and really impressed some onlookers, especially for a 15 year old car.

The downfalls... SES light occaisonally came on. I tried pulling the codes last night, but I couldn't get her to do it.. don't know why, but it pissed me off.

Brake situation.. No power brakes whatsoever. I couldn't get the accumulator to start up at all. I jumped the wires to it, and I got a little bit of a pump, but it wasn't enough to keep it on, leaving me to believe there is a wiring issue here.

However, the brakes worked decently, nothing that could impress anyone, however, I was fine with it. I know the area quite well, I know where to slow down, giving me the room to get a good stop. No emergency stops were necessary, so, all was well.

I will get on the wiring and such Saturday, hopefully to find the culprit to my problems, and hopefully its a cheap fix. Meanwhile, I will be pulling the ABS and BRAKE lights, that way nobody will know the difference between the brakes not exactly having power.


-justin
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Old 09-24-2004, 09:56 AM   #24
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Perhaps a recap is due:
1) This is a Teves ABS system which has an electric pump rather than vaccuum. Teves has been around in europe since the 1920'* and they have a lot of diesel cars there that have no vaccuum. Pontiac dealers are usually not familiar with them but SAAB and VW dealers shoud be.

2) Red light is on. This means the sensor is detecting low pressure. Whenever the red light is on, the ABS will turn off (yellow light on also).

3) Pump is running constantly. This can be caused by the sensor always reporting low pressure or the pump not able to develop enough pressure (around 2200 psi). Even with a completely failed accumulator (about U$100 from GMPartsDirect) the pump should turn off within a minute if you keep your foot off the brake.

4) When pump is running, you have power brakes. So the pump is developing some pressure, we just do not know how much.

4) Pump runs even with key off. That sounds more like a stuck relay.

So what I am hearing is possibly two problems:
The first is the stuck relay but that does not account for the red light staying on (note - parking brake will also turn red light on but not yellow).

The second may be a sensor switch that is not turning off or a pump that cannot develop enough pressure to turn switch off (will have some braking when preessure eceeds 800 psi, just is designed to operate between 2200 and 1700 psi.

Could likely have a bad accumulator particularly if never replaced but would not cause these problems.
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Old 09-24-2004, 07:40 PM   #25
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Well, I know the entire brake system [excluding the rotors/pads/calipers] have never been replaced. There is NO power brakes, the accumulator which I used to hear, is no longer running whatsoever. I got a little bit of juice out of it when I jumped the pump, however, I am unsure if it is just saying it has crapped out and that'* it, or what it is doing. The brakes are fine, from the perspective, I don't have the least bit of worry driving the car [drove another 50 miles today too]. I am going to move into the coolant leak, and the temp sensor [still trying to find it]. Because I am afraid she is getting too hot, and that needs to be corrected ASAP! I am definatly happy with the performance of her though. I am extremly happy about the 6" long patch of rubber [there was another, but that one was only 2-3"], that I left at two stop signs. Damn peg-legs!


-justin
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Old 09-24-2004, 09:06 PM   #26
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OK what you cannot hear is the pump motor. The accumulator (black globe) is just a resovoir. If good you get 15-20 stops after the motor quits. If not the motor runs continuously (and is not designed to).

Coolant sensor is brass device about 1/2" in diameter with a single dark green wire under the throttle body (may have to remove rubber intake hose to see).
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Old 09-24-2004, 10:24 PM   #27
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I will check the coolant sensor thing tomorrow, I do know I didn't check under the TB, hopefully I will be able to find that sucker.

For the brakes, I'll just keep trying the sucker, maybe I will get lucky and it'll start up again [yeah, right!]


-justin
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Old 09-25-2004, 09:27 PM   #28
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I guess I am investigating the brakes a little more.. this whole thing has arised my curiousity. I have determined it is the accumulator/motor which is at fault here, because the ABS and BRAKE lights are both on, and if there aren't any ABS stored codes, and I have fluid, then the accumulator/motor are at fault. However, tonight, as I was just trying to reproduce some electrical errors, and refilling my radiator. I heard the Accumulator/motor assembly. It wasn't quite as strong as it used to be, but anyting is good at the moment. I go into the car, the ABS and BRAKE lights are still on, however, I had significant pedal feel. Which is telling me that it isn't reaching 2500psi or whatever it'* set value is. The front end of the car is sitting on a 4x8 sheet of plywood, and I thought perhaps it was leaking, but the fluid level was at it'* normal level, and nothing was dripping under the car. I am going to continue my investigation, I am starting to believe this may be an easy fix.


-justin
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