steady steering pull to right
05-11-2014, 12:18 PM
#11
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Do you have an IR thermometer? If so, I would use that to check hub and brake temps after a long drive with the issue to make sure something isn't dragging.
And just to confirm, it is actively pulling to the right, as in it will be off the road if you are not on the wheel? Some people have funny definitions of words, which is why I ask.
The other oddity was caster. You mentioned you measured wheel base, and it was shorter on the right side at one point, but more caster on the right side suggests the right should be slightly longer. How long have you had this truck, and how long has the issue been around?
And just to confirm, it is actively pulling to the right, as in it will be off the road if you are not on the wheel? Some people have funny definitions of words, which is why I ask.
The other oddity was caster. You mentioned you measured wheel base, and it was shorter on the right side at one point, but more caster on the right side suggests the right should be slightly longer. How long have you had this truck, and how long has the issue been around?
05-11-2014, 01:54 PM
#12
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
no IR meter but after i drive for a while and feel the rims they are all cool to the touch.
calipers and brakes are all new all around as are the wheel bearings.
it is a steady light pull to the passenger side. have to keep steady pressure on the steering wheel to the left when diving if i let go of the wheel it veers rather quickly to the ditch you have about 2 seconds before its off the road when doing about 50 mph
after the last wheel alignment i took it to a mechanic and he said the wheel base was 1/4-3/8" shorter on the passenger side and that would make it pull towards the passenger side ??? he said if the wheel base was shorter on one side that is the side it will pull to. i phoned the alignment shop and they told me the same thing??? i dont know if this is correct or not? i took the stock lower control arm and put it back on the truck ( as i replaced all control arms with new moog brand ones) after putting it back on i measured wheel base from center to center of wheels and both sides now seem to be the same.
calipers and brakes are all new all around as are the wheel bearings.
it is a steady light pull to the passenger side. have to keep steady pressure on the steering wheel to the left when diving if i let go of the wheel it veers rather quickly to the ditch you have about 2 seconds before its off the road when doing about 50 mph
after the last wheel alignment i took it to a mechanic and he said the wheel base was 1/4-3/8" shorter on the passenger side and that would make it pull towards the passenger side ??? he said if the wheel base was shorter on one side that is the side it will pull to. i phoned the alignment shop and they told me the same thing??? i dont know if this is correct or not? i took the stock lower control arm and put it back on the truck ( as i replaced all control arms with new moog brand ones) after putting it back on i measured wheel base from center to center of wheels and both sides now seem to be the same.
05-11-2014, 01:57 PM
#13
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
bought the truck last year and completely redid the front end as all ball joint were shot. i never had it out on the highway before to know if it was pulling or not. i am only the second owner of the truck. there were no accident reports on the truck as we can check that where i live.
05-11-2014, 01:59 PM
#14
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
it does the same in 4x4 but a little less pressure required on the steering wheel to keep it staight. but still drifts to the right when the wheel is let go
05-11-2014, 07:45 PM
#15
Senior Member
True Car Nut
I am just throwing troubleshooting in the wind at this point, and hoping something sticks.
Does it change (better/worsen) when you let off and come back on the power?
If the tranny is in neutral, and the vehicle is completely coasting, does that have any effect? <Insert basic health and safety warning here>
If the tranny is in neutral, and the engine is shut off at speed, does it affect the issue? <Insert specific and multiple strongly worded health and safety warnings here>
Is it only at certain speeds, or get worse the faster you go?
Are all 4 tires a matched set with exactly the same amount of tread?
Does it change (better/worsen) when you let off and come back on the power?
If the tranny is in neutral, and the vehicle is completely coasting, does that have any effect? <Insert basic health and safety warning here>
If the tranny is in neutral, and the engine is shut off at speed, does it affect the issue? <Insert specific and multiple strongly worded health and safety warnings here>
Is it only at certain speeds, or get worse the faster you go?
Are all 4 tires a matched set with exactly the same amount of tread?
05-11-2014, 07:57 PM
#16
Senior Member
True Car Nut
The other thing bugging me is that the alignment sheet is 6 months old, and I think some parts may have been swapped out since then. Also, the caster being different between sides is nagging at me. Sure it may be in range, but is it different enough to cause an issue?
05-11-2014, 09:00 PM
#17
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
yes i have tied all that, shut off whiles driving ect... tires are all the same, does not matter what speed pull is pretty much the same at all speed, i took a measurement of the wheel base again today and now it measures 143-5/8 on passenger side and 143-7/8 on driver side.. so 1/4" difference, not sre if this would make it pull but everybody tells me it will, why would both sides be different ? i measured from a couple different spots on the frame to the lower control arm mounting bolts/brackets and both sides seem the same there. i went as far back on the frame as i could and then up closer to the front and the measurements were the same. i dunno what else to do, it just bugs the crap outta me when i can't figure something out
05-11-2014, 09:02 PM
#18
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
no parts have been changed other than i put the stock lower control arm back on the passenger side with a new ball joint to see if that would make a difference but no luck
05-11-2014, 09:03 PM
#19
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
so is the caster the same as the wheel base then?? and is caster adjustable enough to make up the 1/4" difference between the to sides?
05-11-2014, 09:13 PM
#20
Senior Member
True Car Nut
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4
Here is a brief interweb search, which has just learned me a bit more.
Camber
The camber angle identifies how far the tire slants away from vertical when viewed directly from the front or back of the vehicle. Camber is expressed in degrees, and is said to be negative when the top of the tire tilts inward toward the center of the vehicle and positive when the top leans away from the center of the vehicle.
Since street suspensions cannot completely compensate for the outer tire tipping towards the outside when the vehicle leans in a corner, there isn't a magical camber setting that will allow the tires to remain vertical when traveling straight down the road (for more even wear), and remain perpendicular to the road during hard cornering (for more generous grip).
Different driving styles can also influence the desired camber angle as well. An enthusiastic driver who corners faster than a reserved driver will receive more cornering grip and longer tire life from a tire aligned with more negative camber. However with the aggressive negative camber, a reserved driver'* lower cornering speeds would cause the inside edges of the tires to wear faster than the outside edges.
What'* the downside to negative camber? Negative camber leans both tires on the axle towards the center of the vehicle. Each tire develops an equal and offsetting "camber thrust" force (the same principle that causes a motorcycle to turn when it leans) even when the vehicle is driven straight ahead. If the vehicle encounters a bump that only causes one tire to lose some of its grip, the other tire'* negative camber will push the vehicle in the direction of the tire that lost grip. The vehicle may feel more "nervous" and become more susceptible to tramlining. Excessive camber will also reduce the available straight-line grip required for rapid acceleration and hard stops.
Appropriate camber settings that take into account the vehicle and driver'* aggressiveness will help balance treadwear with cornering performance. For street-driven vehicles, this means that tire wear and handling requirements must be balanced according to the driver'* needs. The goal is to use enough negative camber to provide good cornering performance while not requiring the tire to put too much of its load on the inner edge while traveling in a straight line. Less negative camber (until the tire is perpendicular to the road at zero camber) typically will reduce the cornering ability, but results in more even wear.
Even though they have some of the most refined suspensions in the world, the next time you see a head-on photo of a Formula 1 car or CART Champ Car set up for a road course, notice how much negative camber is dialed into the front wheels. While this is certainly an example of wear not being as important as grip, negative camber even helps these sophisticated racing cars corner better.
Caster
The caster angle identifies the forward or backward slope of a line drawn through the upper and lower steering pivot points when viewed directly from the side of the vehicle. Caster is expressed in degrees and is measured by comparing a line running through the steering system'* upper and lower pivot points (typically the upper and lower ball joints of an A-arm or wishbone suspension design, or the lower ball joint and the strut tower mount of a McPherson strut design) to a line drawn perpendicular to the ground. Caster is said to be positive if the line slopes towards the rear of the vehicle at the top, and negative if the line slopes towards the front.
A very visual example of positive caster is a motorcycle'* front steering forks. The forks point forward at the bottom and slope backward at the top. This rearward slope causes the front tire to remain stable when riding straight ahead and tilt towards the inside of the corner when turned.
Caster angle settings allow the vehicle manufacturer to balance steering effort, high speed stability and front end cornering effectiveness.
Increasing the amount of positive caster will increase steering effort and straight line tracking, as well as improve high speed stability and cornering effectiveness. Positive caster also increases tire lean when cornering (almost like having more negative camber) as the steering angle is increased.
What'* the downside to positive caster? If thevehicle doesn't have power steering, a noticeable increase in steering effort will be felt as positive caster is increased. Other than that, the effects of positive caster are pretty much "positive," especially increasing the lean of the tire when the vehicle is cornering while returning it to a more upright position when driving straight ahead.
Cross-Camber and Cross-Caster
Most street car alignments call for the front camber and caster settings to be adjusted to slightly different specifications on the right side of the vehicle compared to the left side. These slight side-to-side differences are called cross-camber and cross-caster.
For vehicles set up to drive on the "right" side of the road, the right side is aligned with a little more negative camber (about 1/4-degree) and a little more positive caster (again, about 1/4-degree) to help the vehicle resist the influence of crowned roads that would cause it to drift "downhill" to the right gutter. Since most roads are crowned, cross-camber and cross-caster are helpful the majority of the time, however they will cause a vehicle to drift to the left on a perfectly flat road or a road that leans to the left.
Using cross-camber and cross-caster is not necessary for track-only cars.
The camber angle identifies how far the tire slants away from vertical when viewed directly from the front or back of the vehicle. Camber is expressed in degrees, and is said to be negative when the top of the tire tilts inward toward the center of the vehicle and positive when the top leans away from the center of the vehicle.
Since street suspensions cannot completely compensate for the outer tire tipping towards the outside when the vehicle leans in a corner, there isn't a magical camber setting that will allow the tires to remain vertical when traveling straight down the road (for more even wear), and remain perpendicular to the road during hard cornering (for more generous grip).
Different driving styles can also influence the desired camber angle as well. An enthusiastic driver who corners faster than a reserved driver will receive more cornering grip and longer tire life from a tire aligned with more negative camber. However with the aggressive negative camber, a reserved driver'* lower cornering speeds would cause the inside edges of the tires to wear faster than the outside edges.
What'* the downside to negative camber? Negative camber leans both tires on the axle towards the center of the vehicle. Each tire develops an equal and offsetting "camber thrust" force (the same principle that causes a motorcycle to turn when it leans) even when the vehicle is driven straight ahead. If the vehicle encounters a bump that only causes one tire to lose some of its grip, the other tire'* negative camber will push the vehicle in the direction of the tire that lost grip. The vehicle may feel more "nervous" and become more susceptible to tramlining. Excessive camber will also reduce the available straight-line grip required for rapid acceleration and hard stops.
Appropriate camber settings that take into account the vehicle and driver'* aggressiveness will help balance treadwear with cornering performance. For street-driven vehicles, this means that tire wear and handling requirements must be balanced according to the driver'* needs. The goal is to use enough negative camber to provide good cornering performance while not requiring the tire to put too much of its load on the inner edge while traveling in a straight line. Less negative camber (until the tire is perpendicular to the road at zero camber) typically will reduce the cornering ability, but results in more even wear.
Even though they have some of the most refined suspensions in the world, the next time you see a head-on photo of a Formula 1 car or CART Champ Car set up for a road course, notice how much negative camber is dialed into the front wheels. While this is certainly an example of wear not being as important as grip, negative camber even helps these sophisticated racing cars corner better.
Caster
The caster angle identifies the forward or backward slope of a line drawn through the upper and lower steering pivot points when viewed directly from the side of the vehicle. Caster is expressed in degrees and is measured by comparing a line running through the steering system'* upper and lower pivot points (typically the upper and lower ball joints of an A-arm or wishbone suspension design, or the lower ball joint and the strut tower mount of a McPherson strut design) to a line drawn perpendicular to the ground. Caster is said to be positive if the line slopes towards the rear of the vehicle at the top, and negative if the line slopes towards the front.
A very visual example of positive caster is a motorcycle'* front steering forks. The forks point forward at the bottom and slope backward at the top. This rearward slope causes the front tire to remain stable when riding straight ahead and tilt towards the inside of the corner when turned.
Caster angle settings allow the vehicle manufacturer to balance steering effort, high speed stability and front end cornering effectiveness.
Increasing the amount of positive caster will increase steering effort and straight line tracking, as well as improve high speed stability and cornering effectiveness. Positive caster also increases tire lean when cornering (almost like having more negative camber) as the steering angle is increased.
What'* the downside to positive caster? If thevehicle doesn't have power steering, a noticeable increase in steering effort will be felt as positive caster is increased. Other than that, the effects of positive caster are pretty much "positive," especially increasing the lean of the tire when the vehicle is cornering while returning it to a more upright position when driving straight ahead.
Cross-Camber and Cross-Caster
Most street car alignments call for the front camber and caster settings to be adjusted to slightly different specifications on the right side of the vehicle compared to the left side. These slight side-to-side differences are called cross-camber and cross-caster.
For vehicles set up to drive on the "right" side of the road, the right side is aligned with a little more negative camber (about 1/4-degree) and a little more positive caster (again, about 1/4-degree) to help the vehicle resist the influence of crowned roads that would cause it to drift "downhill" to the right gutter. Since most roads are crowned, cross-camber and cross-caster are helpful the majority of the time, however they will cause a vehicle to drift to the left on a perfectly flat road or a road that leans to the left.
Using cross-camber and cross-caster is not necessary for track-only cars.
The following users liked this post:
big700 (05-11-2014)