Race pellet
05-30-2007, 11:42 PM
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Race pellet
I was just checking out ZZp website today and came across this product called RACE PELLET at ZZ performance. I was wondering if anyone is using this product or is it worth buying. It sounds pretty interesting.
05-31-2007, 12:17 AM
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Buy the resistor for less than a dollar at Radio Shack. Notice the ZZP PCM requirement? They're ignoring the Map sensor input to run it in 'obd1 mode' like the Series 1'* so the IAT will advance timing (like the happy **** I custom built last year).
OBD1 doesn't use a MAP input in conjunction with the IAT signal to determine timing advance. So you can trick the IAT to gain a limited amount of power. My experiments with the Zilla have shown 3 degrees of advance possible under load. If the ZZP PCM ignores the MAP signal in calculating timing advance, this pellet will trick the IAT into thinking the incoming air is colder and denser, and will increase timing.
So why would you want to invest 19.99 for a resistor when you can buy it at Radio Shack for a dollar, and determine which one you should buy (remember colder air) by reading this Techinfo article:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...e=article&k=24
No offense intended to the topic author, but it chaps my hide when I see crap like this. Now you know.
Notice it says MINUS 30 degrees C?
That pellet has a resistor in it somewhere in the range of of 28kohms or 28000 ohms. So a 20k and an 8k resistor in series will do.
Dontcha just love a moneymaking scam?
Running that cold of a sensor spoof, you better follow their well-founded advice and run 100 octane fuel, or we'll have to add you to our BOOM department and hall of fame.
ALL PCM'* will gain timing if you add a basic OBD1-type MAP table to them in place of the MAP sensor input.
This is why the happy **** for OBD2 has to be pre-programmed into the PCM and it doesn't on the OBD1 if you have a little creative genius.
I suggest ditching the ZZP PCM, and not wasting your money on a 20 dollar resistor, and getting the INTENSE PCM with the happy **** option so that you can actually TUNE your car, and see what timing it will tolerate, via information from your scantool. You will not be so heavily dependent on super-de-dooperly high octane and a fixed IAT value.
OBD1 doesn't use a MAP input in conjunction with the IAT signal to determine timing advance. So you can trick the IAT to gain a limited amount of power. My experiments with the Zilla have shown 3 degrees of advance possible under load. If the ZZP PCM ignores the MAP signal in calculating timing advance, this pellet will trick the IAT into thinking the incoming air is colder and denser, and will increase timing.
So why would you want to invest 19.99 for a resistor when you can buy it at Radio Shack for a dollar, and determine which one you should buy (remember colder air) by reading this Techinfo article:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...e=article&k=24
No offense intended to the topic author, but it chaps my hide when I see crap like this. Now you know.
Notice it says MINUS 30 degrees C?
That pellet has a resistor in it somewhere in the range of of 28kohms or 28000 ohms. So a 20k and an 8k resistor in series will do.Dontcha just love a moneymaking scam?
Running that cold of a sensor spoof, you better follow their well-founded advice and run 100 octane fuel, or we'll have to add you to our BOOM department and hall of fame.
ALL PCM'* will gain timing if you add a basic OBD1-type MAP table to them in place of the MAP sensor input.
This is why the happy **** for OBD2 has to be pre-programmed into the PCM and it doesn't on the OBD1 if you have a little creative genius.
I suggest ditching the ZZP PCM, and not wasting your money on a 20 dollar resistor, and getting the INTENSE PCM with the happy **** option so that you can actually TUNE your car, and see what timing it will tolerate, via information from your scantool. You will not be so heavily dependent on super-de-dooperly high octane and a fixed IAT value.
05-31-2007, 01:32 PM
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As far as I can see, the "pellet" just spoofs the PCM into applying the Air_Temp_Spark_Advance table.
As a public service, I looked through stock PCM files for all of the following */C applications:
Grand Prix GTP: 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05
Regal GS: 98, 00, 01
Bonne SSEi: 01
Park Ave Ultra: 99
Not a one of them has any spark advance in the table at low temperature. Therefore, an IAT spoof will likely NOT get you any spark advance on a STOCK */C PCM in these years.
(Granted, this doesn't cover ALL */C PCM'* '97 to '05, and I wish I had more SSEi files to look at...)
Interestingly, even though ZZP says "does not work on naturally aspirated", the n/a application stock PCM files in these years generally DO have up to 5 degrees of advance at low air temps... I guess ZZP just doesn't want any n/a guys on 87 octane going "boom" and then crying to him!
(Now an ECT spoof...there just might be some promise there
)
As a public service, I looked through stock PCM files for all of the following */C applications:
Grand Prix GTP: 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05
Regal GS: 98, 00, 01
Bonne SSEi: 01
Park Ave Ultra: 99
Not a one of them has any spark advance in the table at low temperature. Therefore, an IAT spoof will likely NOT get you any spark advance on a STOCK */C PCM in these years.
(Granted, this doesn't cover ALL */C PCM'* '97 to '05, and I wish I had more SSEi files to look at...)
Interestingly, even though ZZP says "does not work on naturally aspirated", the n/a application stock PCM files in these years generally DO have up to 5 degrees of advance at low air temps... I guess ZZP just doesn't want any n/a guys on 87 octane going "boom" and then crying to him!
(Now an ECT spoof...there just might be some promise there
)
05-31-2007, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue
According to Scott there are some years (grand prix, regals, etc...) that do add timing based on cooler air temps, however this is from a 2000 stock binary file.
06-01-2007, 07:02 AM
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Bob..
I found the same looking at stock Bonnie files. However if programmed properly the timing could be added and the only time one would be able to achive it would be when the pellet was used.
With that said.. a person could pick up Casper'* Timing Commander and have the appropriate tables (for normal pump octane ratings. 93) programmed into the PCM. I came back with this from Intense when my transmission was built back in January.
Last night it got down to 65F and I touched on the added advance without seeing knock. I now have come to the realization of how much our engines like timing. (and that I need to add a throttle limiting mod.)
I found the same looking at stock Bonnie files. However if programmed properly the timing could be added and the only time one would be able to achive it would be when the pellet was used.
With that said.. a person could pick up Casper'* Timing Commander and have the appropriate tables (for normal pump octane ratings. 93) programmed into the PCM. I came back with this from Intense when my transmission was built back in January.
Last night it got down to 65F and I touched on the added advance without seeing knock. I now have come to the realization of how much our engines like timing. (and that I need to add a throttle limiting mod.)
06-01-2007, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BillBoost37
I now have come to the realization of how much our engines like timing. (and that I need to add a throttle limiting mod.)
Lower boost to maximize timing seems to be the way to go then?
06-02-2007, 12:50 AM
#8
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS
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Originally Posted by dillcc
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
I now have come to the realization of how much our engines like timing. (and that I need to add a throttle limiting mod.)
Lower boost to maximize timing seems to be the way to go then?
06-02-2007, 09:34 AM
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http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=70262
This is why every time I port something, I lose indicated boost, but my power goes up.
This is why every time I port something, I lose indicated boost, but my power goes up.
06-03-2007, 08:34 AM
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Can I just install a 2000 Ohms resistance in serie with iat sensor and install a flip switch to bypass the resistance or not when racing??The pcm will see colder air ...