Grand National internals
 

I have been thinking about this for some time now, but as I said before, I'm new to these motors. I have looked over a couple of GN motors at various meet ups and shows in my area. I have noticed while looking them over, from the heads down, they look ALMOST identical. So i did a little more looking into it and was told that the heads are the real difference. The reason I am so interested in the GN motor is, well, they are known to be capable of being monsters. Furthermore, unless I'm just out of the loop, I can't really find too many aftermarket block internals (crank, rods, pistons) that are much better then stock. My "pipedream" is to see a series one break 9's in the 1/4 mile, frontwheel drive. Oh yeah, and be streetable. I'm open for your opinions and facts.

To hit the 9's.. and be streetable.. Is in my opinion not possible. For that matter.. how many cars do you see that can do a 9 second quarter and still be on the street? There are very few.

If you are looking for parts.. S1 parts are probably going to end up being Austraiian. They have performance parts.

Now..if you want to build a monster and might consider an S2.. talk to Intense and ZZP.

You're not going to hit 9's in a S1 without about 10k in the motor, and at LEAST another 5k on the trans. You can build the motors to hell and gone, and the stock internals wil take you very far, but the trans is going to be your weak spot.

I think you'd get off cheaper converting to RWD with a GN motor and trans.

well, I didn't say " I " was going to be the one to put the series1 in the 9's and be streetable, I just said I would like to see it happen. I know this isn't the same but in the import world, the american version nissan 240sx came with what everybody called a weak truck motor, the ka24de, so many people were dropping in the japan version sr20det. Now there are guys breaking 9's and 8's on the ka24de, and keeping SOME of them streetable, and those are times sr20det's could only dream about. My point is, yes I know the cost can get outragous, but I'm all about the underdog. People near and far tell me that the series1 is a weak thrown-together motor, but I think its potential is far more then that. I've had enough fast cars in my life, import and domestic, but for some reason I haven't liked ANY of them as much as this car. If my memory serves me right, the fastest I've seen a series1 Bonny posted on this site is low 13's with spray, my goal is atleast 11's, but I need help from you GURU's, like I said, this motor is new for me.

Dude I am with ya, I think you are on the right path checking on things, I came form imports with an under dog, that is why I love this car also, Rock on.

A Lot of people think that the 3800 LN3( Vin C, used from 88-91 ) and the 3800 L27( used from 90-95)... and the L67 Series I( Used from 91.5-95 ) are weak motors...
For bone stock they are quite good.. The took what they learned from the GN motor, and what they knew needed to be fixed and took care of the issues they had with the 3.8 with the new for 88 3800 V6..

A lot of people view a 3800 as a not so great power plant.. But its amazing when you find them at 320k with great compression, no oil consumption and still run like H***...

The series I 3800's from 88-95 were all overbuilt motors, and GM knew this.. The 3800 II was able to loose weight due to this.. And they are still overbuilt..

The 3800 Series of engines is to the V6 world what the Chevy was to the V8 world.. ;)

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im with you here. I feel if you go with some aussie internals and a turbo you could push some serious numbers and be in the 11's or 10's. I would like my 88 Lesabre T-Type (LN3) to be in the mid 12's. But i have got to save up the money because my engine is mostly stock and there are a ton of supporting mods that would be needed along with a well built 4t65-e from intense

Sorry to thread jack but do you know of any websites for the Australian parts for the S1?

http://www.crowcams.com.au/index.shtml

http://www.yellaterra.com.au/

http://holden.itgo.com/vn.html

There are many others if you do a google or yahoo search on Holden 3800 or Holden V6.

Bear in mind, their Series designation is different than ours. Our Series 2 is their Ecotech. Our Series 1 is their Series 2. You work backwards into their V series to hit the LG3/LN3.

Thanks

Now back on topic.

Is this an "Anything goes" kinda deal? I can give you an approach, but it's not very descript....

you make it sound like you need a series 2 to have a monster. but you are right on where to go for parts.

Basically it is this. You have to find a way to get it to the ground.... and hold it. Secondly, you have to have an engine physically sturdy enough. I don't know how strong the block is, and I have no idea about the internals either. You will have to research that. Full on machine work would be a plus to help it last, and give you a few more horsepower. Other than that, you just need to find a way to stuff air into the engine as efficiently as possible, you also have to figure out how to get it out of the engine, and how to fuel that monster. A big turbo and lots of nitrous, a good cam and killer heads seems like the simplest way, but you're talking big money for something that may or may not last long, as well as possibly lose it's streetability.

You're speed is not always, but most commonly directly proportional to the size of your wallet.


*edit*
Possibly you would require structural bracing on the chassis of the car. You would want a new braking system. It's fun getting up to speed, but you have to slow down too. Roll cage is required at those times/speeds. All of the needed safety equipment basically. Stuff required by rules and regulations at drag strips. Weight reduction would be a plus. And again, a way to get it to the ground. The drivetrain, as well as the tires, and getting them to hold(weight transfer on launch hurts you). Probably a lot of things I'm leaving out. This is a simplified version that in my mind *SHOULD* work, but would be no sure thing.

The newest S1 blocks are 12ish years old, have been driven atleast 50k miles. How they hold up, or are setup for big power is uknown, but it's my understanding that the waterpump begins, or is cavitating at 5-6k RPM in most 3800's, the oil system will need to redone most likely.

Heads, manifolds, super/turbocharger will all need to be done custom, i'm sure a standalone computer will be necessary. Transmission will need to be built a lot, custom suspension, fenderwells setup for slicks, maybe some new tubular control arms, hubs, etc.

it'll take damn near 900-1000hp through the crank to turn a 90's H body into a 9 second door slammer. It wont be streetable, at all.

Aussie L27 blocks hold plenty of power. Look up the holden V6's.

Fenderwells modified for slicks?

:lol:

A standalone engine management system would be best, but that's going to be tricky with an Auto trans.

Yeah, they'd have to be bigger then anything that could fit on a std bonne rim, that's for sure.

I disagree completely. There's plenty of room for my slicks to grow.

tall deck blocks rule...longer rods help top end breathing, the rear bulkhead is substantially stronger and stiffer than the SII rear bulkhead fwiw

that said...i wish i had enough $ to build my dream engine too... :lol:


and Will, i already looked into it...i do believe you could convert an OBDI SI 3800 to run with a OBDII 98-02 SII harness and PCM, the only issue i found is the extra knock sensor...and from what i saw it would just be mounted at a 90* angle from the SII location...you could keep the hydrostatic trans or go with the electronic transaxles. your thoughts?

well, guess I'm going to find out what it'll take, I know this is a bonneville site, but when I DO get the series 1 motor into the 9's, it will be in a beretta body.

why a barretta?

why not something light...like a fiero or a Sunfire?

The Beretta is an L Body, and wasn't really any larger than a Sunfire or Cavi..

I could just Imagine a 3800 in one of those... Even the 3.1 was a lot of motor for those...LOL

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can parts be use from the 80s gm 3800 in the series 1 in 94-95

1st, this thread is kind of old...

2nd, why would you want to use the older 3800 parts in a newer 3800 motor?

Piston ring technology improved over time... And there was no SC'd 3800 untill 91.5...

Locking this thread

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This is a question you should ask in one of your own 3 topics, not in an old dusty one.