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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 02-19-2008, 11:48 PM   #81
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:11 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirthead Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Paul, you saw all versions of the mount except this in person. There is very little if any bending force applied.
You bent one side of the washer far more than the other, you absolutely have bending stress in that bolt.

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Other forces combined (other than pure tension) will comprise less than 10% of the load forces.
I take it 10% is an educated swag?

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Originally Posted by willwren
With a stronger rod/bolt, and used as intended, it'll do fine.
Dirthead, no offense, but alot of Physics, Engineering, and modeling went into this, and SilverBullet and I collaborated on much of it. I run stress analysis on crap all day long, including thermal analysis, modal analysis, etc.

The washer bend may be solely due to which SIDE let go first. The threads in the stress area don't help much.

But when I tell you that you can't determine the stress loads from what you've seen posted, I mean that based on my own knowledge and experience, and it was all taken into account before install. Nothing goes on this car without Plan B and Plan C fully accounted for. The holes in the mount were clearanced for a purpose. To allow for zero (or very close to it) shear forces when the mount is in deflection. To make it even more sure, the entrance hole on the lower half was countersunk to provide a pocket for the Poly bushing to rotate in like a socket.

Until you see the cross-section of the way it'* bored and assembled, you won't be able to grasp it.

I'm not into pitting my education and experience against someone for the purpose of proving a point. But at the same time, I think you can give a little slack based on the fact that I might actually know what I'm doing here, and I have the advantage of having the car sitting in my driveway.

If you go back and watch the vid earlier in this topic, you'll see WHY I set this rod up in the manner I did. I could clearly see the forces that would be applied to it before it ever went in, and I accounted for them.
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:19 AM   #83
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Bill, I took his thumbs up comment as positive.
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:20 AM   #84
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:21 AM   #85
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:27 AM   #86
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DH, the bent washer is an effect of the moment of failure, not necessarily an indicator of cause. The washer is thin and weak, and would have been severely deformed under any odd circumstance including the exact moment it let go.

Have you ever heard of 'fatigue'?

I'm basing my conclusions on the failure as I'm actually personally experiencing it, knowing it didn't let go at the two interfaces where one would expect point-loading. This rules out a good chunk of the odds with regards to shear.

You drive or fly out here, and I'll let you experience first-hand what you don't understand because you don't have the parts in your hands or the car in your driveway. I think Paul fully and completely understands exactly what I'm talking about, because he has first-hand experience with this exact setup on this very car in this driveway.

I think this ridiculous debate over physics and eductation is over. Let'* get back to others contributing their ideas and opinions. You've clearly stated yours.
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:24 AM   #87
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:29 AM   #88
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My only problem at this point is determining if my 316 was actually ASTM rated. Impossible to tell, nearly impossible to find out. Long story. It was packing/retention for a pretty expensive gizmo we ordered at work. It held the gizmo to the crate. I know it'* 316.

Now here'* where it gets dicey. If it'* already ASTM, I have to go quite a bit more expensive to improve on it. If it'* NOT, I might be ok without going 'big'.

I may get a scrap of non-ASTM 316 and do some punch tests on it to check for hardness as a comparison to determine the rating.
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Old 04-13-2008, 09:14 PM   #89
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is there any update on this?
I know the thread is old but I never saw If a grade 8 bolt fixed it
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Old 04-13-2008, 10:01 PM   #90
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Yup. Still going great. It'* put up with at least as much abuse as before, very likely much much more.

With the intercooler and smaller (2.2) pulley, it'* had zero problems.
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