Hard Starting Issue
 

Hi All i am new to this forum and hope that you can help me i am from the UK, and i have just purchased a Olds Cutlass supreme 3.1 Fi Convertible 1992.
Generally i have a few jobs to do to it , but it is a good project and one i am hoping to enjoy.
I purchased the car recently, but had viewed the car about a year ago, at that time it started up ran a little rough but, it had been stood for a few years.
Now i have purchased it and my first job is to get it going, my first thing was to throw about 20ltrs of fresh fuel in and a fuel additive.
now to get the car to fire up i need to put my foot all the way to the floor and is the only way it will start, cold or warm!
we ran it for quite a while eventually getting it to run at 1500rpm with holding the throttle out this took a while but, it will not tick over its-self as soon as you release the pedal it dies and i have to hold the pedal to the floor again to restart it and it is as if it is over fueled ??
Any help would be appreciated, :confused:
Thanks

P.S car only has 60,000 on the clock

Welcome to the forum Phillip!
Do you have any service soon or engine lights on?
Can you tell us besides the 20 Litres of fuel, What fuel additive did you use?

Hi Thanks for the reply, it is just a fuel additive treatment , eg to clean injectors , the brand i don't think you would have in america, its just a additive you put in when you fill up, like Redex.
No check engine lights at all , and the only thing i have is after it got up to temperature the fans did not kick in so check gauges light was on. but that is a separate issue.
No lights initially.

If you can find Sta-bil it may initially help with the sour gas quite a bit.
I am not sure how much % ethanol you have there, but STA-BIL Ethanol Fuel Treatment in the UK link below would at least get the petrol treated.
Adding some more fresh super or high octane with the sta-bil would also help.
Products Archive - STA-BIL
Have you done any tune up work like new spark plugs/wires fuel filter etc?
Possibly pull a few spark plugs and take a look at the condition, even post a photo if they look dirty or fouled , install some new ones may be a good place to start too.

Thanks for the reply, i did remove a plug to see the condition, a little sooted but to be expected with the situation,
The Plug also had a very strong spark,
I am a mechanic but do not know much about these engines and the auto choke etc, there is quite a lot going on!
I would expect for it t run even if the spark plugs weren't the greatest etc, its the fact that unless you put your foot right to the floor it will not even attempt to fire. what i really want is to spend as little as possible getting it running, once its running and i am happy it will get a full overhaul, but i am thinking something isn't working correctly, obviously parts are not as easy to get as in the states.

its not going to run on super old gas, i think i would drain the tank first, then replace the filter

Thank for the reply, i ran it at around 2000 revs for nearly an hour so i would expect it to run? or at least fire?

OK, this is a little confusing...

The car cranks ok, but won't fire......

If you hold the accel pedal all the way(or partially?), the car starts.....If it only starts holding it all the way, this is known as clear flood mode, and you must be running rich.....

Have you checked operation of the IAC valve?

If you release the accel pedal, it immediately dies?

So you are able to keep it running, by depressing the accel pedal? AT what rpms? How low can you go before it dies on you?

Have you tried to check for codes? Don't need a scan tool, this has flash capability, by grounding A to B in the ALDL connector...

Is the air filter oK? Have you checked the vac line to the fuel pressure regulator for fuel?

Do you have access to a scan tool, to read data? Reading coolant temp, MAP, and and O2 once running would be helpful.....does it go into closed loop?

I assume this is a multiport engine and has no cam sensor?

Also, that old gas is not a good situation...

Hi thanks Tech II and everyone else that has posted,

Right i will go through the questions first.

Yes it cranks but will not fire.

but it will fire if you hold the foot to the floor and only to the floor nowhere in between,

If i release the pedal it dies immediately

to get it to run i would hold foot to floor once it fires keep it there for a few seconds it would hunt at around 4500rpm then i would gently back the throttle pedal off and i could get it down to 1500rpm over a minute or so but every single time you release the pedal it dies immediately
and if i started it with the foot to the floor and let it go it would also die.

Yes it is a 3.1 multi port FI , i do not know if it has a cam sensor?
how can i check the operation of the IAC valve?
Vacuum line has not been checked.
Air Filter is Good
i haven't checked for codes as i am not sure i have a connector? but as i have no check engine light i presumed there probably isn't any.
and i would say i am well past the old fuel now!

Has anyone a pdf manual for this engine? and also details on how to check the codes by grounding A + B what flashes?? etc

Multiport engines do not have cam sensors...

Does your CE light come on when you turn the key to the "on" position(engine not running)?


If it does, use this link:

https://www.gmforum.com/specificatio...cks-**-278820/

That's brilliant thanks, i may not get chance to do anything for a day or two with work commitments, and if ya get any other ideas in the meantime :)
Thanks Guys

Just a quicky to say i hve been ill for the last few days so still no chance of pulling codes etc, i am hoping to do that tomorrow evening so watch this space:w3

Hope you feel better soon and not to worry, we see all the new posts quickly around here.
Also look forward to hear if you have any stored codes present.

Hi Guys i went to the vehicle today, bearing in mind that this was the second time that i had attempted to get it started, the first time i started it the battery wasn't great and i used a booster, the other day i bought a new battery for it to eliminate one problem, im sure when i was trying and trying to start it before it just flooded somehow?? and that is why i had all the symptoms listed before
Right this time i decided after putting the battery on to have another go to start it, it fired straight up and sounded awesome. ticked over correctly, would go into gears without stalling all sounded promising. (engine fans were on constant)

After a couple of minutes i could hear it starting to run lumpy and fuel smell got stronger, until it stalled then wouldn't start again only with foot to the floor and all same symptoms as before.

So i think when i leave it till tomorrow it may start normally again?

Codes have been checked and service engine soon light flashes one long to short 12(normal) over and over again.

i have to lights when it was running check guages and service engine soon, but fans were also constant on.

can you point me to this vacuum pipe i need to check as i cant find it a photo or something?

Any help appreciated thanks again!:thumbup2

if the fans on all the time and running rich, probably the ect is failed.

Where is the fuel smell coming from under the hood? If so= Check for fuel around injectors &..
The vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator can be checked while its running. Remove the hose from it (plug hose while it's off with your finger or a screw) and see if gas eventually dribbles out from the FPR...can take a few minutes before gas my leak out..
If gas does leak out you need a new FPR.

Thanks for replies, after doing some research am i right in thinking the fuel regulator is under the top intake cover on this engine, is it the same process if i can get to it?
also would ect failing cause so much hastle and cause the vehicle to cut out and not restart?:confused:

The 3.1L is a bit different than the 3.8L, the fuel injection regulator is right where the fuel inlet/outlet lines are, if you can locate that remove the vacuum hose from it, and wait a minute or two to see if any fuel starts coming from the hard line on the regulator.
The line I am talking about is the one on the top in this pic, that should be where the vac line is attached.

https://www.gmforum.com/attachment.p...ine=1424389626

Ok gonna give this ago over next couple of days, anything else worth trying as well at the same time??

Watch your vacuum lines while in repair. A very good possibility they will break while removing the intake. Watch your pcv valve hose, its directly under the intake.

pcm bases fuelng on ect reading, not just for fan control. if its running way rich it can load up the plugs and the cat and stall out. you can do permanent damage to the cat on these if you run it rich a long time.

Hi again what is the easiest way of stopping the fuel on this engine, maybe fuel rail plug? as i need to clear the system so i can get it started again as it is obviously flooding itsself,
there are no codes at present but if i unplug the rail then obviously i will generate a code i know i can flash the codes, but how do i then delete the codes without a reader??

GMs have a clear flood mode you simply put the petal all the way down and the pcm shuts of the injectors.

you can delete codes on that year by leaving the battery unplugged for a little while and reconnecting

Hi Guys Big thank you to you all, found the issue i think, i unplugged the ect after it died again and it started straight up :) plugged it back in and the tickover increased, and as soon as i bip the throttle it dies! and wont start, unplug it again and it runs all day long starts on the key perfectly, i could not believe that this could cause so much hastle! but pressumably this is the cause and a cheap fix at that and hopefully my fans will go off afterwards.

Cant confirm anything till i order a new one from the states, going to order one from rock autos obviously there is the shipping involved but they go from about £4 uk pounds upwards is there any difference? is there one you guys would recommend.
loads more things to do now i need to find a white soft top roof canvas and think i may need some rubbers for the roof also :):):):)

delphi or ac delco parts work best and longest in GMs

I'd go with this one ACDELCO Part # 88999195, with core fee it is going to cost 100.00 over the price of the other two listed, but in my opinion it is worth it.
If you need to save money and choose one of the other two, I'd go with the A-1 Cardone.

When you get the ECM you are going to need to swap your old PROM over to it, there should be a little cover on your ECM, I think it is two screws holding it on, remove those and remove the PROM, then put it in the new ECM, and put that cover from the old one on it.

Anybody familiar with his year ECM?
It says "Additional relearns (theft, crankshaft, idle, etc) may be required", does this mean he will have to have a dealer do the relearns for him?
Or will he not need to do so since he is swapping over the old PROM?

An little confused at this last post its the ect i am replacing (temp sensor)?
not ecm so not sure about anything on the last post the ect has a two pin plug on it and screws in ?

Ordered one today from a local supplier i googled the part numbers and it cross referenced to an isuzu which i have orderdered that part:) i have to give it a bloody good clean its greens at present ( SUPPOSED TO BE WHITE LOL ) when i have done i will post some pictures up.

Doh, my mistake, I read your post wrong, I thought you said ECM, sorry about that.
I got this thread confused with a similar thread.

Thats ok then thought i had gone mad!!! :thumbup2