First off, I grew up huge GM fan, thats the only company of car my family has owned. I love them to death, but now, my mind is changing and they are no longer the company I have come to love.

Our beloved 3.8L engine has become the laughing stock of all magazines, and public announcers. "The asthamatic 3800" as taken from C&D. And you know what? They have a great point.

Most of our cars, dead stock would probably pull 0-60 times in mind 8'* (L27)
The new Grand Prix GT1/2 is now pulling 8.1s, almost 10 years later. Is something wrong here? Yes.

Has the fuel mileage changed MAJORLY in 10 years? No. Has the Horsepower changed since 95? No. Torque? Ok we got 5 extra lb-ft of torque.

It takes General Motors a supercharger to compete with N/A japanese engines. Although we benefit from easy bolt on upgrades, and wonderful low-mid range torque, 240hp from a blown 231 ci motor, is quite terrible, in this day and age.

I just feel like GM does not know what they are doing. Introducing a new 4.6L northstar engine with 20 HP LESS! in the GXP? Ok, wow. Can you see those warning sirens flashing? Because I can.

And staying cheap by still running FWD cars, in all their flagship cars, is a DEFINITE no no. Come on, this is getting worse. General Motors is trying to prevent there loss in sales by now offering the L67 in practically every midsize car they sell. This is becoming pathetic.

I love posting on this board, I know everyone respects everyone. Lets keep it this way. Please state your opinion, thanks everyone

Matt

Well, I'm partial to my LN3, in the 88-91 Bonnes and MANY GM cars

It was a winner for many years, and I see more LN3s for the late 80s and early 90'* on the road then I do old beat up Japanese cars. In the last few years the imports have come a long way

GM needs to catch up...sure, but it will always be a big seller and the focus of GM now it to up the quality, and its showing. The GM plant in Oshawa Ont has won the JD Power and Associates Best Quality award for 2 years in a row now...

Where is Ramsus2K SSEi when you need him

I agree with the reliability, but what is the point when your not selling cars. Saying a blown 231 couldnt handle 300 hp at the crank is utter diarreha. I think we should send this post to GM Canada/ or GM. See if they wake up a bit.

LOL...Bob Lutz will get pissed off, and the magazines are overly biased anyway. I remember a comparo between the Max and the 04 GP. Lutz blew a gasket and they retested with him there...funny the GP was scored better the second time :?

Very good point. The Maxima is running a 3.5L with 265 crank hp, N/A

GTP is running a 3.8L with 240 crank HP, Blown. Sure the boost helps the torque, which is at 280 lb-ft, but what good is all that low end in a "performancee" sedan, when it still cant propel the GTP to 60 in low 6'* to high 5'*?

We need a VVT 3.8L, with a new fuel delivery system. Running a blown engine for absolutely no reason, except to say, yeah my car is supercharged, is almost as retarded as racing in a Kia Rio.

Its marketability too....domestic cars already have a stronghold, esp in the longevitiy and cost issues....

The Big 3 is dead...GM, Ford and Chrysler...bah...

The Big 2 are GM and Toyota....Ford and Chrysler have lost a lot of ground

That is also EXTREMELY true. I did not post this to say GM is horrid crap, and ill never buy from them again. I posted this in hope that this will somehow help GM realize what they need to change to regain market share, and compete in the automotive industry.

Firstly, GM has to much overdated styling issues. Buick for example: The Century, The Regal, The LeSabre are all large plastic/clothe/leather combo'*. Regardless if the ride is satisfactory there is no substition when it comes to cheap plastic parts decorating the luxury cabin. Under the hood is a different story. Why not introduce something new rather then the classic push-rod 3.8L iron block. It'* shameful that the rest of the market is charging ahead and not even looking back. GM is being unrealistic with there newest model'*. Who wants an engine that has been "moderatly" the same for years and years. Given the Series difference. 200hp base is sadistic this day in age when the Altima and Maxima from Nissan both offer 260+hp and a lovely ride. The new Honda Accord is rated at 240hp and is not */C and it'* a 3.0L, I prefer the newest Accord to any GM vehicle (within reasonable categories). I love the fact that GM brought back the old goat.

But I hate the fact that they couldn't make a new desgin for it. Instead they had to travel down under and change around the Holden Monaro to come up with their newest GTO.
Sure a 350 is beastly, but what good is reviving the Muscle car if you don't have a reasonable body to go with it.

Let me comment on the aging 3.8L.. Lose to pushrods and make a real car that doesn't look like every other new car out there. Sharp lights are attractive, reliabilty is key but if you have drawn away your foremost enthusiast'* then what good will coming out with radical new cars be. The market is already full of raging bulls from the Acura TSX, to the Accord. Dare to compete Lutz?

What GM does is design WAY ahead of its time...and sticks with it...my 89 Bonneville had more features and more power of most cars back in the day.

I mean look at the Aurora for a minute....its a unique looking head turner...so is the 2000+ Bonneville, GM has its winners but it also caters to a certain conservative market.


Not to many import cars looked like that in 95 when it was introduced

I think GM designs some cool cars

Aurora
Bonneville
Corvette
Trans AM
CTS
Seville STS

The Montana is the nicest minivan on the road....

HAHA, like I said GM is getting old. The new Quest roxor'* it to death.

(btw. I hope your joking)