Calling all L36 Owners, need your help.
02-04-2007, 04:02 PM
#1
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Calling all L36 Owners, need your help.
Can anyone that has had this evidence of a leak tell me what it was?
On this one, I’m pretty sure it’* the front of the motor, the puddle is on top of the LIM and that’* the UIM there too of course.
http://www.azclubgp.com/pdxgtp/PDXGT...e/DSC01584.JPG
This one, its hard to see but the wetness has also gone down to the LIM under the throttle body.
http://www.azclubgp.com/pdxgtp/PDXGT...e/DSC01583.JPG
This is a different view of the top of the front of the motor.
http://www.azclubgp.com/pdxgtp/PDXGT...e/DSC01582.JPG
This one is the back of the motor but it has the same problem. This is right above and next to the alt. With the light, you really can’t see anything.
http://www.azclubgp.com/pdxgtp/PDXGT...e/DSC01581.JPG
I figure somehow it might be Upper Intake Manifold gasket, Valve Cover gasket or…… what? I’ guess not being an L36 owner, I’m not sure how this oil will collect, it feels like oil, I guess….
Thanks, I’d certainly appreciate any insight on this one.
I don’t just want to go crazy replacing all the gaskets on the top of the engine but if I can’t get any insight, that’* what’* going to happen.
Thanks again,
On this one, I’m pretty sure it’* the front of the motor, the puddle is on top of the LIM and that’* the UIM there too of course.
http://www.azclubgp.com/pdxgtp/PDXGT...e/DSC01584.JPG
This one, its hard to see but the wetness has also gone down to the LIM under the throttle body.
http://www.azclubgp.com/pdxgtp/PDXGT...e/DSC01583.JPG
This is a different view of the top of the front of the motor.
http://www.azclubgp.com/pdxgtp/PDXGT...e/DSC01582.JPG
This one is the back of the motor but it has the same problem. This is right above and next to the alt. With the light, you really can’t see anything.
http://www.azclubgp.com/pdxgtp/PDXGT...e/DSC01581.JPG
I figure somehow it might be Upper Intake Manifold gasket, Valve Cover gasket or…… what? I’ guess not being an L36 owner, I’m not sure how this oil will collect, it feels like oil, I guess….
Thanks, I’d certainly appreciate any insight on this one.
I don’t just want to go crazy replacing all the gaskets on the top of the engine but if I can’t get any insight, that’* what’* going to happen.
Thanks again,
02-04-2007, 04:23 PM
#2
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS
Expert Gearhead
Could be the upper to lower gasket, or it could be oil wicking up the bolt. I have the oil wicking on my car. With the various leaks seen there, I'd suggest replacing the LIM'* and upper manifold.
02-04-2007, 04:39 PM
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had same thing, went ahead and replaced my UIM/LIM gaskets as a safety precaution...hasn't leaked ever since.
02-04-2007, 05:33 PM
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Thanks guys,
A friend just suggested to replace the actual upper intake because it tends to melt from the EGR stovepipe.
That being said, I'll price the UIM plus gaskets of course, LIM gaskets and injector O-rings.
I'll also put some silicone under the top of the flange bolt heads before torqueing them for that wicking problem.
Thanks again, I also posted in two other forums and pretty much got the same feed back.
Later,
A friend just suggested to replace the actual upper intake because it tends to melt from the EGR stovepipe.
That being said, I'll price the UIM plus gaskets of course, LIM gaskets and injector O-rings.
I'll also put some silicone under the top of the flange bolt heads before torqueing them for that wicking problem.
Thanks again, I also posted in two other forums and pretty much got the same feed back.
Later,
02-05-2007, 06:34 AM
#5
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS
Expert Gearhead
Thomas...
We need to talk. This plastic upper is a far different animal than our SC'd motors.
There are a few different upper manufacturers.
The Dorman kit comes with injector o rings, pcv, reduced diameter stovepipe and all that good stuff.
APN kit is sleeved and reduced diameter stovepipe.
GM upper .. Unsure, I think it'* just a new upper.
We need to talk. This plastic upper is a far different animal than our SC'd motors.
There are a few different upper manufacturers.
The Dorman kit comes with injector o rings, pcv, reduced diameter stovepipe and all that good stuff.
APN kit is sleeved and reduced diameter stovepipe.
GM upper .. Unsure, I think it'* just a new upper.
02-05-2007, 08:22 AM
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Thomas, I posted this on PDXCGP in response to your post there:
Originally Posted by willwren @ February 4th, 9:06 pm
That leak is caused by two evils. The first being DEXcool gaining corrosiveness after a long life. The second are the LIM gaskets eroding. Then the DEX finds it'* way out the bolts, and puddles on the LIM.
I've seen this same thing dozens of times on othe 3800'*.
You'll absolutely **** yourself when you get the LIM gaskets out and see them. Replace them with the aluminum frame (new AC Delco) design, not the OEM (older AC Delco or FelPro). Then flush the DEX out of the car and replace it with Prestone Long-life Dex compatible.
There'* a class-action suit against GM now regarding DEX and it'* corrosiveness.
I strongly encourage you to replace the UIM with an APN kit with the sleeved EGR stovepipe passage. This kit also comes with a reduced-diameter stovepipe for the LIM, providing more insurance. I have an L36 UIM here that was manufactured and installed in 2002, and it'* already showing signs of failure in the EGR stovepipe area.
FWIW, we see anywhere from 2-5 cars a MONTH on the Bonneville Forum that suffer from these problems now. The 2000-2005 generation is now starting to see the same failures as they age.
I've seen this same thing dozens of times on othe 3800'*.
You'll absolutely **** yourself when you get the LIM gaskets out and see them. Replace them with the aluminum frame (new AC Delco) design, not the OEM (older AC Delco or FelPro). Then flush the DEX out of the car and replace it with Prestone Long-life Dex compatible.
There'* a class-action suit against GM now regarding DEX and it'* corrosiveness.
I strongly encourage you to replace the UIM with an APN kit with the sleeved EGR stovepipe passage. This kit also comes with a reduced-diameter stovepipe for the LIM, providing more insurance. I have an L36 UIM here that was manufactured and installed in 2002, and it'* already showing signs of failure in the EGR stovepipe area.
FWIW, we see anywhere from 2-5 cars a MONTH on the Bonneville Forum that suffer from these problems now. The 2000-2005 generation is now starting to see the same failures as they age.
02-05-2007, 10:53 AM
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Thomas. Remeber, I had a small puddle settling on my lower in a similar spot. After we redid my LIM gaskets, I have been bone dry ever since. I am with the others that there may be some wicking involved with the bolts. New gaskets all around are probably in order.
So, when are we doing this? I am ready for more "working on a motor" fun.
So, when are we doing this? I am ready for more "working on a motor" fun.
02-05-2007, 11:24 AM
#8
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS
Expert Gearhead
When you put the lower intake bolts back in give them the recommended (FSM) little goop of GM PTFE pipe thread sealant and you shouldn't have wicking.
02-05-2007, 11:55 AM
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Thomas, you will find the background information on the UIM/LIM problems with the L36 here:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...e=article&k=38
The keys to a lasting repair are the use of the new aluminum frame LIM gaskets, a reduced diameter EGR stovepipe, and a heat shield for the UIM.
The APN upper has a heat shield installed. The APN reduced diameter stovepipe provides a .125" insulating gap between the pipe and the shield. The APN pipe has a .750" base that fits 95-98 LIMs. The base of the pipe would need to be machined to .625" to fit the newer 99+ LIMs. If your car is 99 or newer and you use the stock GM pipe with the APN upper, the insulating gap is reduced to about .065." This is still a better fix than a Dorman, which provides a larger .125" gap but NO HEAT SHIELD.
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...e=article&k=38
The keys to a lasting repair are the use of the new aluminum frame LIM gaskets, a reduced diameter EGR stovepipe, and a heat shield for the UIM.
The APN upper has a heat shield installed. The APN reduced diameter stovepipe provides a .125" insulating gap between the pipe and the shield. The APN pipe has a .750" base that fits 95-98 LIMs. The base of the pipe would need to be machined to .625" to fit the newer 99+ LIMs. If your car is 99 or newer and you use the stock GM pipe with the APN upper, the insulating gap is reduced to about .065." This is still a better fix than a Dorman, which provides a larger .125" gap but NO HEAT SHIELD.
02-05-2007, 07:57 PM
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Wow, this is great information. Thanks so much.
I will read thru the link posted by Bill Buttermore in a few minutes.
I'm gonne tell the guy what parts to buy and i'l schedule him to come over to my house and we will jump in there and get it done.
Yes Bob, of course I'll let you know, I still feel bad for the last time I did a big job and didn't invite you. I have to admitt, it was a freaking hugh job thou-, much bigger then it would have even been on an L67.
Well... Mr Bill Boost, would you mind preparing a parts list with links as to the web site I need to buy from? Or someone?
You guys did such a good Job preparing a parts list for Ben'* trans swap
I understand the ZZP UIM is better then stock?.
I'm totally open to getting it done.
BTW, Bob and Ben, the car is owned by Everett, he'* the guy that came over to my house Friday night when we had started Ben'* trans swap. remember the white GP?
I will read thru the link posted by Bill Buttermore in a few minutes.
I'm gonne tell the guy what parts to buy and i'l schedule him to come over to my house and we will jump in there and get it done.
Yes Bob, of course I'll let you know, I still feel bad for the last time I did a big job and didn't invite you. I have to admitt, it was a freaking hugh job thou-, much bigger then it would have even been on an L67.
Well... Mr Bill Boost, would you mind preparing a parts list with links as to the web site I need to buy from? Or someone?
You guys did such a good Job preparing a parts list for Ben'* trans swap
I understand the ZZP UIM is better then stock?.
I'm totally open to getting it done.
BTW, Bob and Ben, the car is owned by Everett, he'* the guy that came over to my house Friday night when we had started Ben'* trans swap. remember the white GP?