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Old 10-28-2007, 12:22 AM   #41
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Hey Pat, don't pay any attention to all the lawsuits and information out there. Use DEX in your car.

You think all that information is out there for no reason? I understand you have a duty to believe in your Father, but you also have to give credit to State Attorneys and their investigative powers. They're after GM on this because there'* an issue.


Heat may speed up the reaction, but if it weren't for DEX in the first place, there wouldn't be a problem with heat. We have countless non-DEX cars here that have no issues whatsoever well into 6-digit odometer readings.

EK98'* car was DEALER SERVICED and 30-40k later, it all went to hell. How many other early failures have we seen?

Are all the class-action suits (California and Missouri being the big ones) a bunch of BS? Or is there maybe something to this? Is it worth the risk in your own car?

Ask yourself that. Are you willing to risk your car on the off chance that there might NOT be anything wrong with DEX?

How much evidence do you need to start looking into it for yourself instead of listening to others? Research it on your own. I did, and I don't even have a DEX car.
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Old 10-28-2007, 12:35 AM   #42
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will where not saying that DEX is good i will never put DEX back in my car ever .but im not 100% sure that DEX is the S2 main gasket problem ,we have seen car on green colapse gasket and some on DEX that are running ok .but one thing is good to read everyone idea on the subject and learn more about it
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Old 10-28-2007, 12:54 AM   #43
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(I was primarily speaking to Pat with that comment about using DEX)

If I succeed in convincing just one person to ditch the DEX, then it was worth it.

It'* a PHYSICAL FACT that DEX eats Nylon gaskets. Nobody here can argue that one.
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Old 10-28-2007, 01:13 AM   #44
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None of the mechanics or even the Service Manager at our Pontiac GM dealership is aware of the problem. They didn't even know about the switch GM just made on Dex and the notice to scrap all of the old containers replaced by a newer formulation.

Heat was definitely not a factor in my failure at all. I never see above 160 F.

It'* funny to me how some people just can't believe the facts and would rather believe a very biased manufacturer.
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Old 10-28-2007, 01:21 AM   #45
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Wren, and you have said MANY times in this thread that DEX eats gaskets when Air has entered the system.
Now, how could DEX its self be eating the gaskets if it only happens when air gets into it.

also, how do you know that all of these cases when DEX has eaten the gasket that the DEX was flushed out properly and changed every 5years or 100K miles.

it is a Known fact that many, MANY people do not do proper maintness on there cars.
Also there has been many cases of Dealers and Shops not doing the right or full maintness on cars. That has a big factor in this.
so if the proper maintness was done on EVERY car with DEX, then i think this would not be a problem.


Little side note, My dad has a 96 caprice with the LT1, he has DEX in it, It now has 175K miles on it, There is nothing wrong with his car at all.

also if DEX was this bad how come every GM car from 96 and newer doesn't die in 100K miles or so. I think if it was that bad and was all about DEX then i think ti would be a lot more wide spread.

I personally think that the problem is 3 problems in 1.
1- Not doing the proper maintness on the car.
2- Gaskets where not made right on certain model engines.
3- DEX, when not treated right does turn into something that hurts gaskets.


And for you argument about the State Attorneys.... how many times have companies have had lawsuits brought up agents them for no reason and lost just because of hype.
or because of false information. it happens all the time.
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Old 10-28-2007, 02:01 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit
I personally think that the problem is 3 problems in 1.
1- Not doing the proper maintness on the car.
2- Gaskets where not made right on certain model engines.
3- DEX, when not treated right does turn into something that hurts gaskets.
Reading all of this again, I tend to agree.

DEX seems to work fine under ideal circumstances (car is driven daily, has no air in the system, is flushed at the correct intervals, is not contaminated). When any of the above changes though, DEX seems to handle it worse than other coolants, by becoming acidic.

The LIM gaskets seem to be a weak design. Actually, it'* obvious, since GM has updated them two or three times now. Even with non DEX coolant, they have failed. I mean, what'* with the molded-in notches in the coolant passages? Failure almost looks like a design feature. DEX seems to cause a higher failure rate though, due to the situation mentioned in the previous paragraph.

So in my mind, it'* a two-part problem with a two-part solution: Update to aluminum-carrier gaskets, switch to a more forgiving coolant.

Heat may play a factor too, as was mentioned above... heat does indeed speed up some reactions, and who knows what the heat-resistance is of DEX-acid-compromised nylon?

And now that I think of it, nylon can be degraded to a point by constant heat well below it'* melt temp. Nylon has to be dried (moisture removed down to a very low, acceptable level) before it can be molded, otherwise it will cause splay, bubbles, drooling, and all manner of headaches. This drying is done with heated, dry air at about 170 degrees (f). Nylon left on the dryer for too long becomes "overdried". I've never seen it, but I've heard of molded parts being extremely brittle when the material is extremely overdried, to the point of crumbling easily. I'm not sure to what extent this could apply to an application constantly covered in liquid, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. It doesn't dry, but it may still degrade somewhat with temps and time.

In the end, we could probably debate the cause of this to the end of time (until something concrete and scientific comes along), but the solution seems rather obvious. No known failures of the aluminum gaskets, right?

That said I would love to see someone cut a nylon LIM gasket into 4 pieces, and submerge them in:

Fresh DEX
5 year-old DEX
Fresh non-DEX
5 year-old non-DEX

I'd love to see what those looked like in a year or two, and what would happen when you tried to bend them, or scrape them.
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Old 10-28-2007, 03:24 AM   #47
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Donít forget that the old Green antifreeze and Dex are both over 80% identical.
Both are mostly Ethylene Glycol and Diethylene Glycol but the last 10% to 15% is the anti corrosion chemicals (corrosion inhibitor package).
http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...rue#Post611138

If only 0.1% of GM owners has a problem that looks like this there IS a problem with Dex-cool.
Even if the other 99.9% never see a problem related to Dex-cool it is still there.

If you leave Green coolant in a system over three 3 years it will turn nasty but not as bad as Dex.

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Old 10-28-2007, 09:41 AM   #48
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my radiator cap was exactly like that but inside was ok .what i know is that its hard to get the DEX out of the system .i flush mine whit the prestone flush and got some all colors in and my cap was still coming out the same it took a month of cleaning and a LIM swap before its was finaly clean of DEX
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:56 AM   #49
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At the very least, we can all agree that the consequences of getting DEX into oil are well worth the cost of new gaskets and switching to all-colors. Regular coolant isn't great for your motor when it gets into the oiling system, but DEX is absolute death. The brown cottage cheese some of have found in our radiators and motors is tesament to that.. So in a motor that is known for leaks and gasket failures in several areas, I'd say the switch is worth it.
Especially when you take into account that most of us here are acquiring our cars with relatively high mileage to start with.
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Old 10-28-2007, 03:41 PM   #50
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I did my LIMs a few weeks ago (~114,000 miles), and they were starting to get bad. They weren't horrible by any means, definitely not as bad as the gaskets pictured in Bill'* DEX write-up, but they had the typical signs of failing gaskets. When I did my 94'* LIMs at 135,000 miles the gaskets looked brand new. This car went from dealer to dealer and I doubt the coolant was serviced on a regular basis. It was always pretty dirty and the coolant tank was nasty inside.

I don't know for sure how well either car was maintained if I had to compare each. If I had to guess I'd say the 03 was maintained on a much more regular basis. My 03 has a MUCH cleaner engine than the 94 does. The 94 was black and cruddy inside while the 03 is golden brown and has not a speck of grime inside (I'm talking inside the valve covers and in the valley).

I also know that the coolant in the 03 when I bought it looked great. It was very clean and the coolant tank looked as good as Pat'* car with 25,000 miles. I figured it must have been maintained well. It was a one-owner car which made me feel better.

Another thing I do know is that the 03 was driven by it'* one-owner about 26,000 miles/year. The 94 definitely was not driven too often (until I got it). The fact that my 03 was driven many miles per year probably helped keep the coolant in better condition.

But despite the condition of the 03, the gaskets still were starting to get bad. Even though heat can definitely aid in the failure of gaskets, it seems as though if it were not for the DEX itself there wouldn't be a problem. With all the things that point at DEX being a problem I don't see why there'* a need to try and prove there'* nothing wrong with it. We can only push people to do proper maintenance on their cars to keep the DEX or any other coolant they use from becoming defective. But from all the things I've read and heard about DEX in the past couple years, I wouldn't take a risk by using it in my car even though I maintain my cars religiously.

After I did my LIMs and flushed the coolant, I put in the Prestone "DEX-COOL" approved coolant, which I actually thought was real DEX-COOL but was told it wasn't. With the aluminum gaskets I'm hoping I never have any more worries.
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