Good to know. That makes sense.

so i fixed some small things today

test ran the motor again with and with out the temp sensor to make it go in and out of open/close loop . it still runs the same
i could not find the old temp sensor to plug it in to see if it ran any better . its around here some where so i well test that next time i find it
my guess of it running better in open loop was not so today . it still ran bad at start up and open and closed loop

no luck on PCM guys no calls or emails back
the program is 300$ and would let me see every thing like a code reader . and let me right my own PCMs but thats a new skill i would have to pick up.

the only old parts i am still running on is
Wiring
PCM
throttle body.... and i have looked at it 10 ways from Sunday as it has some play in the gear box side of it and a vacuum noise when it opens like its having a hard time getting air but i have had it off 3 times
looked at it and cleaned it really well to see if unread air was getting in and it looks good . its a older 2002 throttle body with the older vacuum lines on the sides but in 2004 they where removed but all wiring and plugs are the same
no vacuum leaks around the throttle body

just going over every last thing left

i am not sure where you live but REALLY.. do you know any 1 around you that could help me take a look at it and maybe fight with the PCM if it comes down to that

I'm near the rocky mountains. I know a couple of dealers that would default it and program in specific changes like the gear ratio. I don't know that they'd fight with it a lot, but they'd do a fair job of diagnosing the real issue.

found the old temp sending unit and played with it . wiring in it is so bad the idle jumps every where . after i got it to work ok the motor still ran the same
so the lower temp it shows does not seem to play games with the pcm . after looking in the code on the tune in the PCM it jumps out of open loop sooner then stock
why all so looking at the code i see the err codes for misfires is turned off but every thing else is turned on
RPM out of gear is 565 . so when i play with it and move the rpm up it seems to run better so i well try to set it for 600 or 650
i think the fuel trims are just off some and at lower rpm its just not as happy

but this is all so why the fuel trims looked good from the PCM but are not at the end of the exhaust pipe.
its been cutting fuel back to save MPG so i well go back with a stock bin file

so it looks like i well be getting a copy of the HPtunes program to help with diagnostic and playing with the tune to get it more in line
i have a guy that is going to help me with it now and work with me to get it up to speed . he lives here in FL and he says he would look at it

so in a month or so i should have some kind of update but i well set every thing i can back to stock and only edit what i need to to make it work

Yeah, 565RPM is too low, unless you were to have some kind of custom super-low-end-torque cam, and even then it would probably not like it.

Good idea going back to stock flash on the PCM. Looking forward to seeing how it comes out!

OMG . wish i could have a better report to give
so i was every afraid to try to go at the pcm tuning my self so i made some calls and sent out some emails .

got a few guys to give me some pricing to help with me it
each 1 of after setting up and welling to drive the RV to them flake out on me and drop off
just like the dealers and repair shops .after they see how big this thing is no 1 wants to touch it
so after having my leg pulled all this time i just ordered the OBD2 unit today to try to do this my self .

1 other thing that did not seem to go well is every 1 knows how to make it a hot rod and jump off the line with more HP
when you talk to them and say what its in and want more a stock setup then its like they dont know how?

They all go the easy way, program stuff that'* supposedly "better than stock" therefore stock is forgotten. That having been said, the guy that programmed your current PCM seemed like the type that would understand programming to stock.

Yeah , he stopped talking as well . just a few emails in it was $ for new pcm
i did send him a copy of the tune he made and he did say he would change a few things

Hopefully he starts talking again.

got some more info today

hp tunes has a scanner app that came with it to see how the motor is running . for the first time i could see a misfire counter and other tests to see whats going on
i seem to have at low idle alot of misfires on 3 def cylinders and that is pushing unused fuel down the exhaust pipe and that in turn is pulling back the fuel trims and feeding the problem even more
as soon as i get the idle up to 750 to 800 rpm the misfires 95% stop fuel trim go back to 0 and every thing runs really good
the idle is ok at 800rmp in gear so i well change it to that or 775
alot of the stock 8.1l truck had a idle of 550rpm so i did not think much of it but for my setup i guess it dont like it . i am sure if still a setting in the tune for fuel or some thing

so thats why no matter what i did i could never find the misfire as it was not just down to 1 cylinder . it was 1 5 and 8 i think
so in the end the idle was just set way to low for my setup .
i well post the log files on the HP tunes website to have others look over my setup and help me with some other things