Generation 2 Seville
 

Anybody on here have a Gen2 Caddy? That's the 1980-1985 Seville I'm interested in. Would like to see if you have any info regarding where parts can be found. Been working on my 1983 and have run into some issues that might help you with your repairs and you might be able to help me also. Doesn't seem to be much info about this series Seville available so we have to help each other. :thumbup2

Welcome to the forums!

Are you looking for totally new parts, or are you ok with salvaged parts?
Salvage parts will be easier to find given the age of the car.

Use this site to locate parts from local salvage yards.

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market

Generation 2 Seville
 

Thanks for the information William E... I've been everywhere on the 'net, found a guy on E>ay but his prices are ridiculous. He wants $20 for an interior door white lens, his other prices are also way too high. I know the scarcity of most parts will command higher prices but they should be reasonable. NOS parts are just not available so recycled is the way to go.

I'm on the Cadillac Forum but all the posts there are for late models. They don't respond to the 1980-1985 postings.

Do you have a gen 2 Seville? If so, keep in touch, might need input on some repairs.

Very welcome, always happy to help another.

I don't have any Caddies atm, but I do like them.
All I have right now is a 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GT with SC, and a 1996 Buick Park Ave NA

This platform has always been interesting to me. I hope to have a Riv from the same era when the final count is in. Would definitely be interested in throwing what I can at your issues. Is anything going on with it now (besides the lens)? What engine did it get blessed with?

This was the model built on the Chevy nova platform if that helps

Sorry to disagree, but Scooter111's 1983 Seville is a FWD K-body which was exclusive to Cadillac, and very similar to the FWD E-body which is shared with the Eldo, Riv, and Toronado. The Nova never had front-wheel drive except for the awful rebadged Corolla version in the late 80's. Which doesn't really count in my book.

As I understood it it was built on a modified Nova frame that's why they came up with that very weird trunk being the Nova frame being shorter.
At lease that's what my father said that worked at GM for 35 years.
What was your source of information??

Cathedral Club I have the 4.1 engine. I think it is a replacement for the original mainly because there is no "keyhole" for the timing light to shine on the front pulley in order to set the timing. Also some hoses were not clamped, just pushed on.

My current problems are: Digital speedo not working. Replaced with working unit but reacts the same. Also replaced the VSS wiring to the speedo, no difference. The cruise control not working. It relies on the computer, VSS, VSS damper, etc so I'm checking them out. Rear window inoperative, repaired the switch, probably motor.

Biggest issue is the speedo, I'm wondering if I could replace the computer with one that functions an analog speedo instead of the digital. I've queried this and the answers I got were.. NO! Probably correct. Also front seats not working but that is minor as far as I'm concerned.

Always a lot if nit picking issues to contend with, I'm familiar with the 4.1 having rebuilt one in a 1985 so I'm not afraid of it. No WOT, just drive it as a pleasure boat and it will last. Any suggestions would be helpful, especially as I'm looking for used parts. No junk yards around here so I have to rely on the internet.

Sorry, I don't want a p1ss1ng match. They're different. Check out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_K_platform_(1980)

. . . and:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_E_platform

. . . or if Wikipedia is non-credible because lots of people seem to say that for some reason check it out elsewhere . . . like:

Junkyard Find: 1983 Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham Coupe

Never seen a Nova with the engine feeding a THM325 longitudinal "chain drive" transmission feeding a differential between the front wheels (forward of the transmission). Or anything like the wide weird frame that fit around this "Unified Power Package" drivetrain. Or independent rear suspension. Check out that junkyard pic of the underside of the Toro in the boneyard. Control arms, crossmember, sway bar, nothing like any Nova I've seen.

Anyways they were very front-heavy, especially with the 5.7 diesel. I always thought they were neat for their uniqueness and concept . . . but I also understand where their reputation came from. The THM325 transmission was based on the ill fated THM200. The 3.8 turbo had some reliability issues in the hands of people who wanted to drive an appliance. The 4.1 V6 had head gasket issues. The Olds 307 V8 was okay enough. Then there was the 5.7 diesel version. Those 5.7's were hard enough to work on with the transmission competing for engine-bay space. I remember the neverending stream of diesel Sevilles coming through the shop. It always amazed me that such a top-line car could be that noisy and broken and smelly all the time. Not that I dislike diesel, it just didn't fit the stereotype of Cadillac IMHO .

Before anyone clobbers me: I know the THM200 and THM200R4 could be made to be good, but that usually came after GM had much to do with building them. Same goes for the THM325 and THM325-4L

Wow, clampless hoses!

Your electronics owes made me cringe. They had these issues while still fairly new. They can be fun to chase. Not the good kind of fun.

Regarding the gauge cluster, you might be able to swap in a Riviera mechanical speedometer cluster. It would probably have to include all of the surrounding plastic and vents and lights etc.

No WOT on the 4.1 I agree will make it last nearly forever. The head-gasket issues were a combination of engineering thin cylinder walls, drivers who expected it to be an appliance and treated it as such, and heat (my exposure was in the west-coast beaches and deserts). I wonder if it is possible that your car was one of the V8-6-4 units that, upon failure, had the 4.1 "big V6" replacement that GM was doing for a lot of those? I don't know if they put the V8-6-4 in the Seville, but all of the other Caddys got all of the other Seville engines so maybe . . . ?

Cathedral club... The V8-6-4 engine, as far as I know, was prevalent in the 1980-1982 Seville's. Most issues with this conglomeration were solved by cutting the wire so it ran on 8 cylinders all of the time and was a relatively a good engine. It was a 368 cu in with real power and hard to find now. Most of the 1980-1985 4.1 V8 engines were subject to cylinder wall problems because the walls were so thin. That problem was addressed in 1985 and those engines turned out to be pretty reliable with the block and head bolt situation addressed by the factory.

Seems like the 4.1 engine was good for 50,000 miles before it had problems and, recognizing this, GM replaced them under warranty although you got the same thing until 1985 when they recast the block. For 1980-1984 sometimes you got a good one; I met a couple of 4.1 owners who were still running well over 100,000 miles. Luck of the draw!

Anyway, would like to find some other owners with the 1980-1985 cars to compare experiences and parts locators/suppliers or even their excess stuff laying around.

Thanks to all for the input and hope you keep it coming!!

Ah yes, I always forget about the Cadillac 4.1 V8 those years. I guess since it was only in Cadillacs it didn't cross my radar like the others that were shared about through Cadillac and all the others.

Glad to have you here, keep asking questions! . . . and maybe throw a pic of that beauty up here.

Continuing saga on my '83 Seville... Just found a radiator leak and after pulling the rad, deduced that it was beyond repair. So, like anyone else, went to the computer and ordered a new aluminum replacement unit from a very reputable supplier. The one I got was not applicable to my car (old stock closeout) and initiated a return/exchange for another mfg's product. While everything was open and accessible, decided to replace the (usually) plastic timing indicator which was missing. Since being plastic, it was either not reinstalled when the motor was replaced or broken when the new water pump was installed or just became brittle with age and fell apart. Part #1623830 (GM) no longer available, of course, so to the junk yard I went. Originally sold for less than $10 when new, the junk yards want from $50 to $150 for plastic one. Rip-off artists!! Found one, supposedly metal, for $89, still undecided on that.

Found a working digital replacement speedometer reasonably priced, does the same thing mine did so my speedo was not at fault. Also replaced the GM 25007220 speed sensor from speedo to VSS buffer.. Try to find one of these suckers! That wasn't the problem either, put mine back in. AHA! no power to the buffer. Currently tracing the wiring from fuse to 56 connector to buffer to CC switch to ignition switch to ECM to cruise control to brake switch. Raining, can't work on it right now. Fun job!

Several other things in need of repair so I'll keep posting if anyone is interested. But I need information on something I have been considering. Question: Can I replace my digital speedo with an analog one? I'm thinking I would have to replace the computer to effect the electronics change and would the new ECM have to be programmed? Just a possibility in mind as an alternative to having a dealer trace my electronic issues.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. And who has a 1980-85 Seville with whom I can swap stories? Later, Norm

My heart gets warm every time i see this video LMAO :D

I am definitely interested!

I don't know if the Eldo had a non-digital option, but the Riv did so it could be possible there is a feasible way. The clusters are different shapes and humoring the idea of swapping surrounding dash pieces across yields the fact that the pseudo-woodgrain is different from Buick to Cadillac.

Well according to the source my father and others GM used NOVA modified frames to build the short Cadillac with the weird trunk.
My father said go check out the two frames they used the same frame rails other family members worked at the GM plant the frames came from they saved millions not to have to buy new tooling.
Wikipedia did not work at the GM plant now did they?

REGAL GUY
For what it's worth, in my travels today I stopped at a Collision shop and talked with the owner who remembers stuff he worked on back in the 70's and 80's. To his recollection, the Seville (and possible other models of Caddies) could very well have used the frame rails from the Nova as you suggested. He, however, remembers distinctly that the PLATFORMS for the Nova and Caddy were different, hence different configurations between the finished frame Nova vs Caddy. That might be where the confusion came from, frame rails the same but different cross members, gussets, etc. So you are possibly correct as well as CATHEDRAL CLUB being correct also. I remember back in the 70's my Dad's caddy needed lower ball joints and my buddy at the parts store gave me the Moog ball joints for a Chevy which were the same thing only packaged, and sold, at different prices. GM is notorious for saving money by using parts from one badge to another to save them money. You might buy a Caddy in looks but the guts could very well be supplied by Pontiac, Olds Buick or Chevy. Case in point, through EXTENSIVE use of the internet, I'm finding parts for my '83 Seville are also used on the other GM badges.

CATHEDRAL CLUB
You piqued my interest with the Riv dash suggestion. I called around and found two models I'm going to look at to see if it is feasible to swap dash parts and accompanying gauges, etc. without spending a fortune. The Riv parts, at least in this area are more readily available than the Seville of my era. For all of the bad mouthing the 80 to 85 Seville's have received, mostly referred to as GM's "deadly sin", there should be tons of them in junk yards but that is not the case. I'm wondering why unless all of them have been sent to the crusher.

Hard to tell uncle George that worked at the GM frame stamping plant for 35 years that he was wrong.
When he was not!
GM K platform

K-body) was the basis of the Cadillac Seville model over two entirely different automobile platforms. 1970s GM K platform (RWD) 1980– GM K platform (FWD)

Well what do you know same platform {RWD AKA NOVA frame} and {FWD AKA modified nova frame} my thanks to CATHEDRAL CLUB for showing uncle George was correct the whole time

Like I said, I don't want a p1ss1ng match. At the same time this is an interesting topic. Yes GM does re-use stuff if they can to keep production costs down. I get that. So lets explore:

The Nova/Apollo/Omega/Ventura RWD frame was fairly narrow, large arches in back to allow the solid rear axle to travel up and down and almost no arches in front to allow conventional crossmember and motor mount placement and conventional control-arm mounting. Steering arms are behind of the front suspension. Crossmembers had to allow the transmission to trail behind the engine and the driveshaft to move up and down behind that. The main engine crossmember is right under the center point of the engine and motor mounts are there as well.

The Seville/Riviera/Toronado FWD frame is a bit wider, almost no arches in back to allow the independent rear suspension somewhere to be mounted, and minor arches in front to allow the steering arms to move around and half-shafts' inner CV joints to mate with the differential. Steering arms are forward of the front suspension. Crossmembers behind the firewall are almost flat (except for room for the exhaust pipe). The main engine crossmember is right under the front crank seal and motor mounts are there as well.

If we dig deep enough it could be possible that some portion of the frame rails of the Sev/Riv/Toro are inherited from the Nova/Apollo/Omega/Ventura , but when we get there we'll probably find more in common with the GMC FWD motorhome or the 70's FWD Eldos and Toros.

Neither did Britannica, Websters, GMForum.com, Vic Edelbrock, or Jegs . That doesn't mean any of them are wrong about Novas or Sevilles. ;)

This stuff is always fun to me. My Roadmaster is essentially a Caprice with Buick clothes on. That meant that when I wanted to firm up the ride, all I had to do was get shocks for a Caprice 9C1 Police Interceptor. Turns out the rear shocks are no difference, while the front shocks are from a 1-ton Chevy Van same year. Threw those on my RM and fixed it right up. Then it occurred to me that my 1973 Buick Centurions ate shocks like I eat hamburgers (thanks to the heavy front end). They'd always be good for 10,000-15,000 miles then be shot. I wonder if they are the same part as the stock shocks for the 95 RM? Indeed yes they are. That means the 9C1 shocks will fit. Finally a good ride in those boats (when I restore them). Keep digging, same front shocks fit all B- and C- bodies from 1970 up until end of production including coupes, sedans, wagons, and convertibles. Probably fit earlier models and at least a couple decades of Chevy vans too.

Maybe, depending on how the panels and gauges attach, it might be a good idea to get the whole dash . . . ?

I think a lot of them went to the crusher faster than Rivs. With the standard engine being the diesel for a few years the line's fate was fairly-well sealed. Not to mention the V864, the early 4.1 Caddy V8s, and the Buick 4.1 V6's. All had great points . . . that were overshadowed by their greater flaws. Meanwhile Rivs got yeah several of the above and lots of Olds 307's and Buick 3.8T's and those definitely held up better.

The frame RAILS are on each side of the car!
Adding different cross sections for FWD to RWD don't change the frame rails
or squeezing them down in the back or front the basic rail was used!
From the NOVA frame stamping machine then modified.
Source GM workers at the GM frame stamping plant.

Agree, frame rails are on each side of the car, hence my:

. . . referring to the frame rails (on the sides) that would interfere with a live axle in the rear and have conventional front-suspension components and crossmembers mounted to it etc.

Not sure why they'd stamp out a frame one way then modify it completely another way. This would seem analogous to making a banana out of an apple. And it would be twice the work (or more), which GM didn't ever pay for if they didn't have to.

Got it. I've been under probably a couple hundred Riviera+Sevilles+Eldorados+Toronados back when they were coming in for warranty etc. all the time. Also been under a bunch of Novas and Apollos. No similarity. Maybe your sources are referring to same presses with new dies? I don't know them and wasn't there.

Look, overall this isn't worth kicking back and forth until the end of time. The only reason I engaged this issue is (1) I believe it to be incorrect based on my own first-hand observations and (2) the most useful use of knowledge of common frames is interchangeability of major parts, and nothing will interchange between any Nova and any 1979-1985 Riv/Sev/Eldo/Toro save very pieces like bolts, nuts, etc.

Perhaps, take this thread back to your sources if they are available and they can elaborate?

Well you take your basic Nova frame rail then you change pucks in your 100 ton frame stamping machine and you can stamp it out longer in the back or the front or in the middle or any part of it you want.
Then you add the cross members you want {depending if its FWD or RWD }
then you weld or rivet it together to fit the application.

I, CathedralCub, hereby request a pause in this battle of the frame rails to propose a truce with Regal Guy.

Regal Guy, it appears we are dueling to the end over differing opinions of what constitutes a relationship between one frame rail design and another. I steadfastly hold to one position, and you to another.

Fortunately, the Interweb gets us just close enough to one another to swing our frame-rails and strike that of the other. Unfortunately, the cruelty of the Interweb does not get us close enough to hold them side-by side a mere three decades in the past to see the ancients in action. Without this, I fear we could battle until the end of time, when all that we hold dear has turned to dust.

Please accept my offer of a truce, and we can go forward together mostly agreeing on other things while helping all mankind with their automotive woes. Especially the Buick owners.

Sincerely,
CathedralCub

Its not a matter of opinions when members of my family built the frame rails in there own words its a fact in my case.
My source is GM workers .
Its best if you stop giving the wrong information out on this subject

Tooling cost millions and millions so they just don't go out and spend 500 million on
a new frame stamping machine.

Spot on.

So, no truce then?

Agree completely. Never said they did. They change dies all the time though, same machine different dies. Same with stamping metal body parts. When they shut down B-body and F-body production in the 90's and early 00's to build pickups and SUVs they didn't swap out the presses, just changed the shape of what they press. Still doesn't mean a Suburban has the same frame as a Camaro.

The back of Seville/Eldo/Riv/Toro is essentially a trailer. Quite different than the back end of any Nova (except the awful one built by Toyota). It can be stamped out by the same machine, as can the frame for a B-body or pickup truck.

peter123wallace, something factual to contribute here?

Look all, I'm fairly sure this is not what scooter111 had in mind when he posted here. I've personally had my hands and eyes on everything we're discussing here countless times. I've presented pictures and other factual information. I've presented a case for why the Nova past isn't important to the Seville/Eldo/Toro/Riv as almost no parts fit both. I've tried to take the high road and stop the whole thing peacefully, only to be accused of spreading bad information. I will not escalate further. It's not that important and I don't need to prove myself right that badly. If someone needs to get the last word in after this message, that's fine, do what you think you need to do. I hope we all can find some common ground elsewhere in the forum but I'm going to stop participating in this discussion.

Yes stop spreading bad information the modified Nova frames stamped out by GM on the same frame stamping machines with different pucks.
Has nothing to do with a frames or other GM parts.
I did not know you worked at the GM frame stamping plant for 35 years like members of my family did
So all this time you have been guessing trying to prove some point of part interchange.
The frames were modified stretched out or not with thre same frame stamping
machines to save 500 million on new tooling at the time