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-   -   EGR Pintle Position Circuit Failure code? 96 3.1 Regal (https://www.gmforum.com/buick-172/egr-pintle-position-circuit-failure-code-96-3-1-regal-301379/)

feedtheworm 11-15-2011 04:35 PM

EGR Pintle Position Circuit Failure code? 96 3.1 Regal
 
Does anybody know what this code means? I replaced the EGR valve but it didn't help anything.
I sealed a vacuum leak recently and ever since It's hard to start and has a wild, loping Idle and will die unless I'm giving it a little gas. That's if it's warmed up at all.
If it's a cold start it idles a little bit higher but it's steady.

I've already replaced the EGR valve, IAC valve, Throttle Position Sensor, PCV valve and cleaned up the entire throttle body. When it had the vacuum leak it always started easily and although the idle was a little inconsistent, it never died.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

feedtheworm 11-16-2011 01:30 PM

I should also mention that I attempted to scrape out any carbon deposits (in the manifold where it connects).

WilliamE 11-17-2011 02:06 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by feedtheworm (Post 1545494)
Does anybody know what this code means? I replaced the EGR valve but it didn't help anything.
I sealed a vacuum leak recently and ever since It's hard to start and has a wild, loping Idle and will die unless I'm giving it a little gas. That's if it's warmed up at all.
If it's a cold start it idles a little bit higher but it's steady.

I've already replaced the EGR valve, IAC valve, Throttle Position Sensor, PCV valve and cleaned up the entire throttle body. When it had the vacuum leak it always started easily and although the idle was a little inconsistent, it never died.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Normally that would mean the EGR Valve Pintle is sticking, but you replaced that, did you have the codes cleared from the computer after replacing the EGR Valve?

If you had the code cleared, and have made sure the new EGR Pintle did not get stuck from a chunk of carbon, then the next place I'd look is the wiring.

https://www.gmforum.com/attachment.p...ine=1321513591

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here is a diagram for the wiring, there is good info on how to test the wiring if you google How to test the GM EGR Valve, I'd post the link to it, but I am not sure if I am allowed to, it is an auto diagnostics site..

Hope you get that figured out and fixed ASAP!

feedtheworm 11-17-2011 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamE (Post 1545601)
Normally that would mean the EGR Valve Pintle is sticking, but you replaced that, did you have the codes cleared from the computer after replacing the EGR Valve?

If you had the code cleared, and have made sure the new EGR Pintle did not get stuck from a chunk of carbon, then the next place I'd look is the wiring.

Here is a diagram for the wiring, there is good info on how to test the wiring if you google How to test the GM EGR Valve, I'd post the link to it, but I am not sure if I am allowed to, it is an auto diagnostics site..

Hope you get that figured out and fixed ASAP!


Thanks. I found the website you mentioned and it looks like it will be very helpful.

WilliamE 11-17-2011 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedtheworm (Post 1545643)
Thanks. I found the website you mentioned and it looks like it will be very helpful.

Very welcome, glad you found that site, it should help you diagnose the problem, if not maybe somebody around here will have info from a factory service manual that will help you better diagnose the problem.

feedtheworm 12-01-2011 08:44 PM

Fuel pressure / Coil testing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamE (Post 1545685)
Very welcome, glad you found that site, it should help you diagnose the problem, if not maybe somebody around here will have info from a factory service manual that will help you better diagnose the problem.

I dug in to it again today. I found another gasket where the bolts for the EGR valve come through the underside of the manifold. That gasket was bad and part of it was missing somehow.
I replaced the gasket and although it didn't correct anything, The EGR code doesn't come up on the computer any more.

Now I'm getting two new codes. One is that the fuel is too rich and the second is multiple, random, misfiring.

I tested the fuel pressure and it doesn't go above 40. Does anyone know what the correct fuel pressure is? For some reason I'm thinking it should be around 60.
I'm also wondering if anyone knows how to test the coils. Someone suggested that one of them might be bad.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Johnny

WilliamE 12-01-2011 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedtheworm (Post 1546512)
I dug in to it again today. I found another gasket where the bolts for the EGR valve come through the underside of the manifold. That gasket was bad and part of it was missing somehow.
I replaced the gasket and although it didn't correct anything, The EGR code doesn't come up on the computer any more.

Now I'm getting two new codes. One is that the fuel is too rich and the second is multiple, random, misfiring.

I tested the fuel pressure and it doesn't go above 40. Does anyone know what the correct fuel pressure is? For some reason I'm thinking it should be around 60.
I'm also wondering if anyone knows how to test the coils. Someone suggested that one of them might be bad.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Johnny



Fuel pressure is a tad low, but should still be close enough to be good, yours should be 41 to 47 PSI.
Have you waited for 5 minutes to make sure pressure is not dropping?
It should maintain the pressure you see for at least 5 minutes after turning the key to the off position.

Considering you have random misfires I'd not think the coils are bad, if the misfire was just on two cylinders that share the same coil pack (I think your coil packs are just like mine) then you could swap position of the coil pack and see if the misfire follows.

Have you pulled the little vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator while running and see if there is a sign of fuel in it, if so replace it.
I suppose even if you may still have it going bad, and if that one on there is the original then it wouldn't hurt to change it, and while at it considering your fuel pressure is on the low end I'm sure it would not hurt to replace your fuel filter.

I searched and found this, it may help with testing the coil packs if you still want to test them to rule them out as being bad.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_co...il_packs_1.php

Hopefully that helps a little.

feedtheworm 12-09-2011 02:59 AM

We tested everything earlier today and it all tested good except the fuel pressure.
Fuel pressure starts at about 45 and levels off to 38-39. Pressure drops instantly after turning off.

Any ideas?

WilliamE 12-09-2011 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedtheworm (Post 1546945)
We tested everything earlier today and it all tested good except the fuel pressure.
Fuel pressure starts at about 45 and levels off to 38-39. Pressure drops instantly after turning off.

Any ideas?

Possibly a leaky fuel injector, or I believe the fuel pressure regulator can go bad and cause that, have you removed the hose from the FPR to see if gas is in it?
To test that you should be able to turn the key on and see if any gas is dripping out.

That 5-6 psi FP drop off is normal, but I have read it takes like 5 minutes to leak down to that.


I just noticed you said "if it is a cold start it idles higher but steady"
That is probably because on cold start the fuel system is in open loop mode and the system is using pre-set calculated fuel delivery setting, once the car gets to a certain temp it will go into closed loop mode, where the cars sensors like oxygen & engine coolant temp sensors, etc, start effecting calculated fuel delivery.

Maybe you have a sensor that is not working properly, maybe the oxygen or engine coolant sensor..
I wish I knew enough to better help.



Just curious, but have you noticed you are loosing excessive coolant from your overflow reservoir?

Have you ever replaced the known to fail nylon 6-6 Lower Intake Manifold Gaskets?
If not you may want to consider that, usually from 60-100k they fail, then the engine hydra locks, and you also possibly throw a connecting rod, which leave you needing a new engine, or an R&R

feedtheworm 12-09-2011 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamE (Post 1546946)
Possibly a leaky fuel injector, or I believe the fuel pressure regulator can go bad and cause that, have you removed the hose from the FPR to see if gas is in it?
To test that you should be able to turn the key on and see if any gas is dripping out.

That 5-6 psi FP drop off is normal, but I have read it takes like 5 minutes to leak down to that.


I just noticed you said "if it is a cold start it idles higher but steady"
That is probably because on cold start the fuel system is in open loop mode and the system is using pre-set calculated fuel delivery setting, once the car gets to a certain temp it will go into closed loop mode, where the cars sensors like oxygen & engine coolant temp sensors, etc, start effecting calculated fuel delivery.

Maybe you have a sensor that is not working properly, maybe the oxygen or engine coolant sensor..
I wish I knew enough to better help.



Just curious, but have you noticed you are loosing excessive coolant from your overflow reservoir?

Have you ever replaced the known to fail nylon 6-6 Lower Intake Manifold Gaskets?
If not you may want to consider that, usually from 60-100k they fail, then the engine hydra locks, and you also possibly throw a connecting rod, which leave you needing a new engine, or an R&R


I'm not sure about fuel in that hose. I'll have to check with my friend that's helping me.
I mentioned that it idled slightly higher on a cold start. That was before it got really cold. Now that it's below freezing, it idles very high on a cold start. So high in fact that I have to put it in gear just to keep it in check. It's been happening for about five years. The colder it is the worse it gets.

I did the intake manifold gasket at about 150,000. I haven't noticed condensation in the oil since.


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