Century 2002 won't turnover
 

Hi - I'm new to the forum - so forgive me if I'm posting in the wrong spot.

Our 2002 Buick Century will not turnover. I've replaced the battery, so that's not the problem. When the key is in the run position all the dash lights are on, however, the security light does not remain on.

I've tried the relearn procedure (turn key on for 11min / off - repeat 3 times) but it still won't start. Checked all fuses. No luck.

I've tried both keys. No luck. The key fobs will not lock/unlock the doors. Although, both key fobs have fully charged batteries.

We don't use the car regularly. Although, the last time we started the car, it started and ran fine. But that was about 1 month ago.

Any help would be much appreciated!

If I gather right, your saying that when you turn the key to start, the starter doesn't turn the engine over?

If so, this isn't security related. I'm thinking bad starter. Sometimes you can get it to start again if you whack the starter with the side of a hammer.

When I turn the key to start, the starter doesn't get engaged at all (no clicking, cranking etc.). I have checked and there is current going to the starter, but I thought a malfunctioning Buick VATS system also shut down the fuel injectors etc. preventing the vehicle from starting.

It also seemed odd that both the key fobs had stopped locking/unlocking the doors - which seemed VATS related, but that's a guess.

I do like the idea of a starter / gummed up solenoid better and will give it a whack with a hammer as suggested.

Thanks for the suggestion.

You can try to re-synchronize the key FOBS by pressing & holding down both the Lock & Unlock buttons at the same time for about 10+ seconds until the lights flash or horn honks.
This hopefully will make the Fobs work again....:)

Thanks. I tried resetting the key FOBs by pressing lock/unlock at the same time for 10+ seconds - but no luck there either.

The key fobs have recently worked fine and both have good batteries (......and now both FOBS have stopped working) - so seems like I have something else going on.

I agree...besides, you said the SECURITY light was going out......

Have someone hit the starter, not the solenoid, while turning the key.....if it cranks over, then like Mike says, it needs a starter.....

If it doesn't, then put a test light on the "S" terminal(purple wire) of the solenoid.....when the key is in the crank position, the test light should light....if it does, you need a starter...if it doesn't, you have to follow the circuit back though the P/N switch to the starter enable relay(if it has one) and to the ignition switch.....

One other thing you can check, is your underhood fuse block.....check if there is a starter enable or crank relay.....if there is one(early production had these), when someone turns the key to the crank position, you should "feel" the relay click....if it doesn't, try swapping with another relay.....

You can also apply the e-brake and trying to start the car in neutral....

The key fobs have nothing to do with starting the vehicle, unless there is a remote start button on your key fob.........

Just how did you determine there is "current" going to the starter?

Does your vehicle have PassKey(resistor on key) or PassLock?

Tech II thanks for the response.

My neighbor was giving me a hand and used a screwdriver to close the circuit on the starter "solenoid?" while I had the key in the run position. The starter would spin but not engage. I'll use a tester as you suggested just to confirm - but as you pointed out - if that's the extent of the issues (and no security involved) - then maybe a new starter will take care of it. I also need to try giving it a whack while turning the key......

This car uses the Pass-key II system which uses the resister to match the GM key to the car. I do not have remote start. I have tried starting in neutral, but no luck there either.

I've checked all fuses, but haven't checked into the relays. I see a mini-relay for the Starter solenoid, Ignition main (nothing labelled starter enable or crank relay though).

Not sure it helps with diagnostics, but in addition to the starter and the key FOBS not functioning, the interior electronic switches for the door locks, windows, and trunk release have also stopped working. The power seats continue to work though.

Any other thoughts?

If the starter spins, but does not engage the flywheel, then the starter is toast. At the solenoid anyway.

But even if the starter is shot, shouldn't it spin on it's own when I turn the key without having to manually close the circuit with a screwdriver.

It seems like something is preventing the signal to engage the starter from being received normally (and is also preventing the power windows, door locks, and the trunk release from functioning)..........just not sure what that would be.

I think its the way you phrased it in your previous reply.

Check for 12v at the small wire going to the starter when you turn the key to start.

I'm still having the problem, but have done some more diagnosis. I've used a power probe to test all fuses. I found that the BCM Power fuse (10A) was dead. I replaced it and it failed right away. As a result, I'm assuming I have a short circuit, but I'm not sure where to start looking.

I tested and did have 12V at the starter. Using the power probe I applied voltage directly to the purple wire on the starter and the car turned over and started right away. It ran for a few seconds and quit. I'm assuming without the BCM fuse (and associated short circuit) it won't continue running.

Any ideas on how to trace the problem that's causing the BCM fuse to keep failing?

Thanks.

OK, when you turn key to crank, the starter does not move....however, when you apply power directly to the starter solenoid "S" terminal(purple wire), the car turns over and then dies, because the injectors are not firing because the ECM is not getting a fuel enable signal from the BCM.....

You need a schematic of the BCM, to see if that fuse feeds another circuit besides the BCM......

Which fuse is blowing? What is the EXACT name of the fuse on the fuse block cover?

https://www.gmforum.com/attachment.p...ine=1397960707

The fuse that is blowing is located under the dash and is labelled BCM Pwr (a 10A fuse).

I assume the most likely source of the problem is the BCM - is there any way to verify that without purchasing a replacement body control module?

unplug the bcm, and put a new fuse in, if it blows its the wiring, if not its in the bcm

Makes sense - I'll give that a try. Where is the BCM module? Is under the dash?

the manual says under driver side air duct, vertical with 4 plugs on the bottom

Problem solved - I gave up and took it to the garage today. They verified that the problem was not related to wiring going to the BCM or output from the BCM. Therefore, the short was occurring in the BCM unit itself, hence the reason the 10A fuse to the BCM pwr kept popping. When they pulled it out, the circuit board was melted. The technician said that this isn't uncommon with this vintage of GM vehicles (they had 3 in this morning with similar problems).

They showed me the unit they pulled out and the core of it was seriously scorched. Typically, if it can be refurbished, I would be due for a $160 credit since they can send the old one back - unfortunately, this doesn't look promising for mine.

The fix was to replace the BCM with a refurbished unit. They programmed it and everything is good as new. Total cost $1,012. Ouch! Unfortunately, I don't think this was a job I could have done myself without the proper tool to re-program the BCM (Tech 2 scanner?) and once the BCM is replaced, it will NOT function without being reprogrammed for the specific vehicle.

Anyway - it's warrantied for 40,000km's or 2 years - so I won't have to worry about this issue for a while.

thanks for posting the fix. it looks like the bcm is becoming one of the most expensive parts on the car, sucks

I hate dealers. You got so hosed on this. A/C Delco reman part from rockauto.com is $158. Not for one minute do I believe it takes that much labor to find/remove/install and program. It costs that much to remove a FWD transmission.

Totally agree with Mike on this one, concerning the cost.....but I disagree on lumping all dealerships together.....


First, have never seen a core rebate on BCM's......second: "The technician said that this isn't uncommon with this vintage of GM vehicles (they had 3 in this morning with similar problems). " Yeah right, why not be more dramatic and say 4?

Don't know what the cost of Canadian parts are, but that job should have not even been half that price....do you have a break down of parts and labor charges(time involved)?

Sorry, I'll rephrase that, I hate shops/dealers that overcharge in situations such as this.

I'm with Gus, I would like to see an itemized list of what you were charged for.

Glad you got the car fixed, but I agree with the others, they overcharged you by a ridiculous amount, I have taken my BCM out before, and it only took me maybe 30 minutes to remove, and 30 minutes to put it back.
Reprogramming it on a Tech II should not take but a couple of minutes, so at most I can see them charging you for an hours labor.
The part being 160.00, I can see them charging close to double for that to cover their warranty, most shops do this.
Even if it was double, that would be like 320.00, and guessing their hourly rate is probably around 70.00 to 80.00 an hour, at most you should have been charged around 500.00 for labor, part, and warranty.
In my opinion even that is a bit steep, but what can you do if you do not have a Tech II..

Yep - here's the cost breakdown. I would be interested in what others think of the charges. This isn't a GM dealership - it was a recommended shop that provides excellent service at a price lower than the dealership.

Maybe that's NOT the case. Unfortunately, I have little to compare to, but it does seem like a lot of money to spend......

Problem diagnosis.........................$155
BCM removal/replacement labor.....$109 (1 hour labor)
BCM Computer.............................$476 (BCM part - $126 will be refunded if the core was reusable, which it probably isn't)
Freight........................................$ 25 (cost to ship BCM)
Computer reflash..........................$109 (1 hour labor)
Shop supplies...............................$ 40
Technical Info Access Fee........ ......$ 4
GST tax.......................................$45
PST tax........................................$45
Total............................................$ 1011

What do think? Too high?

Too high IMO, 109.00 an hour for labor, I know I have not went to a shop in a while, but I could have sworn the dealer was charging like 75.00 to 80.00 an hour, and this is a dealership.

I am betting they did not spend an hour removing the BCM, if so they were purposely taking their time, or they just rounded up a half hour to an hour.

476.00 total for the BCM is extremely ridiculous, a 160.00 part should not have been that much even if they charged double, core or not IMO it should not have been over 320.00 max for that part.

Freight change is ridiculous, the BCM is not freight, not what you'd typically call freight anyway, 25.00 to get the part shipped is a bit much, unless it had to be over night shipped from somewhere.

40.00 for shop supplies, I am curious as to what they used 40.00 worth, when I removed mine, and put it back, I used no extra "supplies"

Maybe the others can help you justify the fees here, but IMO they robbed you, and I'd never go to them again.

I work at a Toyota dealer in NY. We charge 89.00 a hour. And we charge by book or warranty time. I think 40 for shop supplies is a lot. A lot of places charge a shop supply charge on every repair. But it is usually like 5 or 10 here. That bcm is cheap compared to the cost I have seen of a lot of them.

Jesus H...

Thank god the only thing I CAN'T do in my driveway is an alignment and a NYS inspection. Otherwise I would have gone bankrupt 20 some years ago.

I'd go back and argue the shop supplies. WTF did they use out of THEIR supply wise to remove and install this BCM?

You got screwed on the parts cost. $158 was the cost of a A/C Delco brand new unit at Rockauto.

It doesn't cost $25 to ship something unless it was overnighted.

Technical Access fee? WTF is that? Every GM dealer should already have access to GM's technical database without charge. This should not be passed down to the customer. Technically, its a tax write off.

I'd go on, but the more I look at the price list makes me want to go up there and do some wall to wall counseling using dimension lumber on the service writer.

it was that on the dodge truck ones my fil and the ones at work had to have, dealer only part and programing = costing ones body part or parts

I thought that part could be bought on RockAuto for 158.00?
Technically that would mean in this case it was not a dealer only part, but a part that primarily can only be serviced by a dealer, or somebody with a Tech II..

I would have bought/replaced the BCM myself in a parking lot of my local mechanic, as they are pretty easy to access, and remove.
I'd have paid him to flash it, or if he wouldn't do it I'd find somebody else that would, and I'd have came out saving a lot of money compared to what they had to spend.

Hour to program the BCM? The car is already in the shop.....attach your Tech II to a computerand car..... 10-15 minutes, tops....

Too high a cost on BCM....

$40 for what supplies?

An hour to remove/install a BCM?

Freight?

William, he can buy it off of Rockauto. The A/C Delco brand. They actually require you to send in your VIN number when you purchase it. It must come directly from the factory where they have the capability to program it before it ships. Same thing with PCM's.