2004 Lesabre Oil Pan & Intake Manifold Gaskets
 

Hi guys, I am buying an 04 Lesabre Limited with 47,000 miles this week and first thing is to change out the upper and lower intake manifold gaskets, valve cover gaskets, and Upper intake plenum.
In order to rid the engine of any possible coolant in the wrong places, I will drain the oil, take the spark plugs out, and crank the engine by hand. Then I will drop the oil pan & clean it out.
Questions:
1) I am looking at oil pan gaskets on rockauto.com and there are two different shapes of this gasket. How do I know which one I have?(I don't have the car yet but want to order everything soon)

2) I have heard this car might have an engine mount attached to the oil pan. True? Is dropping the pan gonna be tough?

3) Orings/Seals: I am doing the injector o-rings and also replacing the thermostat and it's seal. Should I put anything on those like sealant, lubricant, etc?

4) Bolts: I do not have any torque wrenches, what should I do? I don't mind buying them if that's what it takes. What should I put on the UIM & LIM bolts? Put blue loctite on all of them?



Thanks!

1. Why are you changing the oil pan gasket?

2. Not sure. But when you get the car, take a picture of the oil pan for us.

3. Why are you doing the injector o-rings? Thermostat-just drop it in and install a new housing gasket.

4. Get a torque wrench. They are fairly cheap and you need to not only know torque settings, but torque sequence. No, don't put Loctite on them. Either buy NEW bolts or clean them on a wire wheel and put THREAD SEALER on the lower portion of the bolts. You want to seal the threads(coolant jackets), not lock the bolts in.

1. I am changing the oil pan gasket because I am dropping the oil pan. Figure I shouldn't reuse it.

2. will do

3. Have been recommended to change injector o-rings when the injectors are being pulled - (shouldn't reuse an o-ring?)

4. thx

1. That still didn't answer my question.

2. Ok

3. Ok, you were told correct.

4. Your welcome.

You are going with the Fel-PRO aluminum framed lower intake manifold gasket right?
And also going with the Dorman coolant elbow?
If you need part numbers let me know.

I am also curious as for the reasoning in replacing the oil pan gasket, I get you are dropping the pan, but for what reason?
Is the old gasket leaking?
If not I do not see a reason to drop the pan.


Search results for: 'torque wrench'
As for torque wrenches, ass Mike said you really want to use them, Harbor Freight Tools has them for around 20.00 each, or you could see if a local auto parts store will long you the in lb, and ft lb torque wrenches you need, I think Auto Zone or Advance loans tools out, one of them used to, but it has been so long since I borrowed one, I cannot remember.

As for the oil pan gasket, all 3 listed look the same to me, only thing I notice is one picture is flipped vertically, so it looks different.
I'd go with the FEL-PRO Part # OS30699R gasket, just be sure to have to have some RTV on hand, because if your pan is the grooved pan it can leak if RTV is not used.

Oh yea, for the thermostat gasket, with the paper type gasket, it won't hurt to put a thin coat of RTV on it, I did this with my car, just in case the RTV ring already on the gasket did not seal well enough, I figured better safe than sorry.

I got the same car and I just did an oil pan gasket. The oil pan on there is very well designed and thick so there is no danger of warping the pan on removal. I have done what you are planning even the LIM gasket and here is dow I did it to be leak free.

Oil Pan gasket. The engine mount is attached to the oil pan so your right there. You need at least a bottle jack and wood to support the engine. I supported mine close to the edge of the tranny pan with wood and jack. It is enough to support it. You have to remove the fastener securing the tranny lines to the bell housing (It's almost impossible to remove the dust shields without doing that)

As for the mount there is kind of a hidden stud you have to remove from the top of the bracket. It is a pain to have to pry and turn the bracket on removal and installation.

When dropping the pan you have to take the oil level sensor out otherwise the pan won't fall.

Oil Pan bolts = 120 to 125 INCH lbs (safer to stick with 120)
Mount (Bottom nut) = 40 FT lbs
All other mount bolts and studs = 30 FT lbs
Oil Pickup tube = 132 INCH lbs

Careful with the oil pan bolts I had one snap on me and had to use an easy out to get it back out. Took an additional 2 hours but I was able to save the threads :P Also clean your pickup tube out really well as a lot of carbon develops in it. Also DO NOT forget to put rtv bead at all 4 corners where the timing cover meets the block and the main cap meets the block on the other end.

As for the gasket you need this should be able to be crossed but here is the autozone part number OS30699R it should cross at rockauto because it is felpro's part number not Autozones.


Now the LIM and UIM repair. You will need this kit MS98014T. Also it is not a bad idead to grab this UIM (dorman part number 615-180) since most of them warp. I bought one and have never regretted it. There is a big Oring for the PCV area and a smaller one you will miss down inside the housing. And there are 2 hidden bolts under the 2 puddles of oil you will find in the LIM. Don't be alarmed by the puddles in the LIM they are normal for this engine.

LIM bolts = 132 INCH lbs
UIM = 89 INCH lbs
Throttle Body = 89 INCH lbs
Thermostat housing bolts = 16 FT lbs

Also don't forget to use a bead of RTV at all 4 corners of the valley and threadlock all bolts.

For the thermostat housing gasket. There is not one that you need really as you will only find a seal around the thermostat and that is enough to keep it from leaking. But if you like to have peace of mind like me use the paper one that comes in the LIM gasket kit.

Lastly since the cooling system must be emptied then it is a good time to flush the system and only use Conventional Green Antifreeze from autozone. This kind worked fine for over 60 years you do not need DEATHCOOL as this is what caused the LIM gaskets to blow out. I am pretty sure after you see the pitting on the LIM from that crap you will want nothing but the green in there.

These jobs are not the hardest but are in a lot of ways tedious and require a fair amount of attention to get everything leak free. The most important thing is to clean a lot. The block and head can be wire wheeled with the normal steel wire wheels but the aluminum side has to be done either by hand or with a brass wire wheel.

As WilliamE pointed out you can rent a torque wrench from Auutozone there is a big one and a Inch lb one. I am currently the manager of an Autozone so I can verify that. Also if you need one ask them to pull up the repair info on the computer and then print it for you they have to do this for you if it is available for the job your doing.

Good luck these cars are really nice cars once you tackle the stuff it needs. Oh and the hard shift these have when upshifting due to a stuck pressure control solenoid can be bypassed with the 4T65E trans-go shift kit. Easy to do and takes about an hour.

Be sure to replace the EGR stove pipe with the reduced diameter one, you should get it in the Dorman UIM Gasket Kit, or UIM/UIM Gasket Kit..
You'll actually get two of them in the kit, on is not for your application, so you can discard it.
A tip when replacing that, use the old one you remove to place over the new stove pipe, and tap it down till it is as close to flush as you can get it.

If you need any help with how to do it I have a PDF a friend made up on doing the job, and I also have a thread of about 25 pages from when I did mu UIM/LIM.

another vote for the dorman 615-180 upper kit, its a pretty good deal considering all it comes with

and while apart you need to do the plastic elbow to aluminum conversion because when you take the manifold or tensioner off they break off into a bunch of pieces in the manifold.Dorman pn;47065hp

Sure, quite interested in all that.

Here is the link to the thread from when I learned to do my LIM/UIM, I asked almost every question one could ask, and there are a few good tips in the thread.

Replacing UIM, UIM Gasket, and LIM Gasket. - 3800Pro.com Forum

The pdf I'd have to e-mail to you, so if you want to private message me your e-mail I can send the PDF, as I don't have a link for it, because it was e-mailed to me by a guy in that thread.

The only thing in the PDF I did not do was to remove the Exhaust crossover pipe, I was able to do it all with that still in place, but it would be a tad easier if it was removed.

hi
in order to total drain the coolant out of the block you have to remove the knock sensors but one is in the middle of the block next to the trans a 7/8 crow foot will work 12 point but its tight need a universal joint on it to snake it in there then those metal fingers to snake it out to put more pipe sealer on the threads there is 2 one on each side of block just changed them out on my regal if you have questions

Hi, when you say "drain the coolant out of the block", do you mean drain the coolant in order to completely drain the coolant(complete coolant flush)? Or when you say that, do you main the coolant could be in the block where it leaked in due to failed lower intake manifold gaskets? Sorry for any stupid questions, I like turning wrenches but have never broken down a car engine before.

Also, I think I was not clear in my first post as to why I might drop the oil pan. It is mentioned in a LIM/UIM guide on a different forum on how to expel coolant from cylinders/freshen up the oil in the bearings. They mentioned dropping and cleaning the oil pan as well. See attached image to this post for the excerpt that includes this.


I have done a lot of reading on the UIM/LIM gasket replacement before starting this thread and decided on this list of parts for the job:
APN Upper intake plenum(w/ metal shielded stove pipe) GM Intake Manifold Kit
Black OEM throttle body gasket(because it is softer and said to work better than the one that comes with the APN Plenum. Because the stiff one with the APN kit makes the plenum flex)
APN kit comes with lower injector o-rings.
ACdelco aluminum framed LIM gasket
Dorman aluminum coolant elbows
Valve cover gaskets: FEL-PRO Part # VS50080R

Extras while I'm in there: thermostat & seal, PCV valve.

Have all of it in my cart on rockauto ready to order.

I read that exert that you posted a pic of, I don't see anything in it that says to drop the oil pan, they say to drain the oil via drain plug, remove oil filter, and all spark plugs, then rotate the engine a few times with a wrench, the refilling with oil, disconnecting the ICM and giving it a crank or two via key to get fresh oil to the bearings, to be even safer you could change the oil again in a few thousand miles.
Dropping the pan would be a bit of an extra precaution, but it is not necessary, if you got a lot of coolant in your cylinders you'd know it, as it would have hydro-locked.

Also, that APN UIM is the best part you can go with, but IMO it is not necessary as long as you install the reduced diameter EGR Stovepipe, I opted to do this and saved like 40.00.
Judging by how little mine had warped around the EGR port in 136,000 miles, I am pretty sure the Dorman replacement I went with will hold up for the rest of the life of the car.


As for a full coolant flush, and going with typical green coolant, not trying to start another debate about it, but I opted to so a partial flush, and go with Dex again, as I am not sure it is more of the coolants fault problems occur, or the owners neglect to change the coolant when necessary, to make sure no air is in the system, and to not mix coolant types.
Of course many will disagree, and curse Dex-Cool, but I look at it like this, if it was more of the coolants fault, why did they redesign the LIM Gasket, and EGR Stovepipe, rather than to change the coolant.

Also as for the rubber side gasket things for the LIM, I used them and have never had an issue, and many others have used them as well, I suggest using them and not relying on RTV along, mine did not move, fall off, or cause any leaks in the 136k they were on the car before I replaced the LIM Gasket, and so far they have not caused an issue at all.

Last I've researched. Coolant type is not the issue with the gaskets. It's just a design flaw with the gaskets themselves. They don't tolerate heat/cold constants all the time and they fail. You'd be surprised at what chemicals plastic can tolerate. Including acid.

I'll second the runner gaskets. The gap between the LIM and engine block is too great for RTV alone to fill the "gap". RTV is only good up to 1/8". Otherwise, pressure or vacuum can pull it out.

You guys are referencing the shorter rubber pieces that come with the typical LIM gasket kits, correct? They come with the acdelco kit I want to get. See the link, they are the orange pieces, correct? More Information for ACDELCO 89017816
RTV is required at both ends of those pieces, correct?


In reference to the oil pan..oops.. :rolleyes: I guess it is not in that excerpt. Just checked and they actually said to drop the pan if you end up dropping crap into the crankcase.
That leads me to my next question. How worried should I be of dropping stuff into the engine while the LIM is off? Is it easy to do while you are scraping old gasket material off the sealing surfaces? I don't even know what the proper terminology is. The LIM gaskets sit on what..? and the passages through the LIM gaskets are what..? What is the space between the two LIM gaskets?

Yes those orange rubber parts are what we are talking about, when you install them put a good gob of RTV on each corner before placing them down, then a good glob on top of them at each corner.

With the LIM Ports, I'll try to get a pic and label the air, and coolant ports on it for you, when you pull the LIM off just get some old towels and cover the lower end of the motor so you don't drop anything into it, then you can clean any old gasket material from it.
I think there are some pics in my old thread I have you a link to, I just used an old towel to cover the balancer and all, and stuffed some rags in the other ports.

Oh yeah, I forgot about a video that may help you, it is for a L67 Supercharged motor, but after removal of the Supercharger the rest applies to your L36.
http://www.cpaclubgp.com/misc/lim-gasket.html

You may need VLC Media player/plugin installed to watch it, or use the link under the video box to download the video, then play it with something like VLC, or Windows media Player.

i dont think its a big deal either way, i do it on small blocks too. because they come with crappy gaskets that blow out. the 3800 gaskets though have little dots and ridges that hold it in. so on the 3800s i have done i used it and put some extra black silicone on top of it and below it.



as far as the redesigned UIM, the dorman comes with all the new design stuff and is thicker where the oem one cracks.

No, its not required to drop the oil pan. Best practice is to lay shop rags in the lifter valley after you get the LIM off the engine. This is to catch anything while you remove old gaskets. Do not worry about coolant going down into the lifter valley. Once you have installed everything, now you can drain all the oil out, change the filter and put new oil in. Some people will change the oil again in a few days.

And BTW, yes, I have been pulling Regal Guy's posts because he is not posting correct information. Draining the engine of coolant via the knock sensor ports is not required. And the LIM rubber runners that we said to install, are there for a reason. So install them. Using gobs of RTV will only create problems should a gob of it fall into the lifter valley. The only place you need to install RTV is the 4 corners where the runner meets the manifold gasket. This is to create a seal between the 2 gaskets.

The redesigned Dorman one is what I went with myself, they are considering the APN one because of the problems with the EGR gasses warping the area coolant passes through, which makes that added steel bushing an extra piece of mind, I'm not sure I'd pay 40.00 for it myself though, I considered getting a steel bushing and cementing it in there myself, but decided the reduced diameter EGR Stove-pipe addressed that problem well enough.


Also, Mike, when I said gobs I meant a decent amount that is enough to seal each corner, I am pretty sure you were referring to the suggestion of using just RTV, but just in case, since I did say gob as well, I only meant a reasonable amount to seal it, to much is as bad as too little..

No sir, your correct. I understood you meant dabs in each corner. But someone else was saying not to use the parts and just gooping the snot out of the rails. Which is bad info.

after you replace the injector O rings be sure to replace the fuel feed and return O rings
there is only 1 in each
and vent there on the manifold
you use like a dental pick to fish them out
and the main feed line is the most likely
to fail and cause a fire
you might want to all so use paper towels to plug up holes
that way no lent gets in the engine that can plug up oil passages
they also work great with carb cleaner sprayed on them
to clean up intake ports and so on with long handled needle
nose the 2 foot kind
carb cleaner from Wal-Mart works great 2 bucks a can to
and while you have it apart check the back of throttle body
for carbon build up

I checked my coolant but pumping with a hand pump out of the reservoir into a small jar. The coolant has plenty of particles floating around. There was also a bit of mud underneath the radiator cap. Thats what prompted me do pump some out into a jar to have a better look. pic: https://i.imgur.com/ljuTqvz.jpg
I was going to just refill the radiator when done with the gasket job, but now I think I should do a more of a flush. Anyone recommend a way to flush the system out? I will be using havoline dexcool to refill.

I plan on using the LIM end seals with just the RTV at the ends to seal between the two gaskets.

you can try the old prestone back flush they sell at walmart for 4 dollars
I would just get extra 6 inch of heater hose and a few clamps
so you can put in line on heater hose then remove it when your done
in order to total drain block
the knock sensors have to come out
so the prestone trick would be much easy