2002 Bonneville, cranks over, no spark no start - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


2000-2005 Discuss your 2000-2005 Bonneville SE, SLE, and SSEi Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-05-2016, 02:42 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tman75 is on a distinguished road
Default 2002 Bonneville, cranks over, no spark no start

Hello everyone,


Ok, here is what I have. The car would randomly stall, then start again if you let it sit for awhile. I has now stalled and it won't start. I have tried the crank position sensor test and ICM tests. Here are my stats:
  1. 3.8L
  2. Fuel pressure: 45-50psi
  3. No spark
  4. Cranks over good
  5. Battery new
  6. ICM ground good, I cleaned up the 3 ground contacts under the hood also
  7. 12V to ICM: I only get 1.48V when I probe the connected harness. However, I get 11.56V on the P wire when the harness is disconnected from the ICM and when the ICM/Cam/Crank sensor harness is unplugged from the main harness in front of the intake.
  8. 12V to the Crank sensor: only get 1.48V when I probe that wire. I think it was the N wire, but I can't remember. I did probe the correct wire however.
I did some parts swapping off a 3.8 that runs but no luck. ICM harness, ICM and coils. I put the ICM/coils from the bad car to the good car and the known good car fired right up. So I am ruling out those parts being bad.


My #6 above is what has me stumped. Something is dropping the voltage when the harness is hooked up. I believe that is causing my No Start issue. But, I may be on the wrong trail also.


Does anyone have any ideas or had a similar issue?
Tman75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2016, 11:59 AM   #2
Senior Member

True Car Nut
 
2kg4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Windsor, Ontario / Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 4,804
Thanked 220 Times in 181 Posts
2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of
Default

Everything points to the crank shaft position sensor. Have you changed it yet? It is one of the most common failures we see with the 3.8 in the Bonneville.
2kg4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2016, 06:28 PM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tman75 is on a distinguished road
Default

That is what I was suspicious of, but the voltage test does not support that as the problem. Would the CPS cause the 1.48V input to the ICM when the harness is hooked up?
Tman75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 09:15 AM   #4
Senior Member

True Car Nut
 
2kg4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Windsor, Ontario / Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 4,804
Thanked 220 Times in 181 Posts
2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of
Default

Forget your voltage tests. Change the CPS. Tell me if the following matches what you are experiencing:
  • Engine randomly shuts off like someone flipped a switch. No stuttering or drop in power, just shuts off.
  • When it first starts happening the engine is up to full operating temperature.
  • First few times it happens it will usually start right up again, perhaps even before you coast to a stop.
  • As time progresses, it happens more often, and takes longer rest periods to start up again.
  • Gets to the point where it won't start even after resting for a while.
  • When it won't start, there is no spark to any of the plugs, engine cranks strong and good fuel pressure.
I could probably think of more symptoms, but I hope you get the idea. For an '02 Bonneville with the 3.8 it is not a matter of if the CPS will fail, it is a matter of when it will fail. I can't begin to tell you how common this is for your car.
2kg4u is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 2kg4u For This Useful Post:
GunsOfNavarone (04-08-2016)
Old 04-07-2016, 11:49 AM   #5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tman75 is on a distinguished road
Default

Yes, every one of those are the symptoms. I normally do every test possible to have good proof rather than change parts, but in this case I will try the CPS. I have seen many posts about that being an issue on the 3.8. Those are cheap enough and I was 95% certain that is what the issue was. Thanks for your replies. I will post what I find out after I get it switched out. I hear the balancer bolt is a "B" to remove. Any tips besides persistence?
Tman75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 12:07 PM   #6
Senior Member

True Car Nut
 
2kg4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Windsor, Ontario / Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 4,804
Thanked 220 Times in 181 Posts
2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tman75 View Post
Yes, every one of those are the symptoms. I normally do every test possible to have good proof rather than change parts, but in this case I will try the CPS. I have seen many posts about that being an issue on the 3.8. Those are cheap enough and I was 95% certain that is what the issue was. Thanks for your replies. I will post what I find out after I get it switched out. I hear the balancer bolt is a "B" to remove. Any tips besides persistence?
Disconnect the battery.

Jack the front right of the car up, remove the wheel, and remove the passenger side front wheel well liner (two pieces) to get direct access to the bolt. Use a 1/2" drive socket wrench with enough extensions to extend the wrench out past the fender. Put a car stand (or something of the right height) under the extension right up next to the wrench to support it when you reef on the wrench, and use a FBCB (friggin big cheater bar) to turn the socket wrench. There is a small plastic access plate on the bottom of the engine at the interface to the transmission you can remove that will give you access to the ring gear (the thing the starter turns) which will allow you to stick something in there to stop the engine from turning over when you are reefing on the harmonic balancer bolt.

Once you get the bolt out you will need a puller to get the harmonic balancer off. If you don't have one, most auto stores loan them out (you place a deposit that you get back when you return the tool).

Before you remove the old CPS, mark its position with something and use that as a guide to line up the new one. There is very little adjustment when installing the new one, but there is some slight movement so you want it in the same position as the old one. Inspect the inside of the harmonic balancer for any cracks, broken or missing pieces, or any other problems.

Technically, you should use a new bolt for the harmonic balancer when you re-install it.

The only difficult part about this repair is removing the harmonic balancer. Get all your tools in place before you start, take your time, think before you act, and you should be okay. Make sure you have a jack stand under the car, as well as under the socket extension. I have done it several times with just basic hand tools.
2kg4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 12:18 PM   #7
Senior Member

True Car Nut
 
2kg4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Windsor, Ontario / Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 4,804
Thanked 220 Times in 181 Posts
2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of
Default

Also, take a picture of old CPS before you remove it to be used for comparison when you install the new one.

Of course, the whole procedure about the extensions and the FBCB is made simple with an air compressor and an impact wrench.
2kg4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 12:21 PM   #8
Senior Member

True Car Nut
 
2kg4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Windsor, Ontario / Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 4,804
Thanked 220 Times in 181 Posts
2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of2kg4u has much to be proud of
Default

2kg4u is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 2kg4u For This Useful Post:
WilliamE (04-07-2016)
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
93 Bonneville shut off on Fwy. Lights,radio,windows work Cranks but won't turn over. sammy69 1992-1999 6 02-23-2010 07:07 PM
94 Bonneville SSE Cranks but wont start... need advice! henryjacobsen 1992-1999 23 12-30-2006 01:23 PM
93 bonneville, engine cranks, but it won't start up mnalep 1992-1999 6 01-03-2006 09:27 AM
1995 Bonneville, no start, cranks etc. kc2jga 1992-1999 29 02-04-2005 02:13 AM
88 Bonneville cranks but won't start bufordberry 1987-1991 6 07-07-2004 11:37 AM


Tags
coil, cps, crankshaft, icm, spark

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.