Need Help to get my 92 Bonneville SE Up and Running
 

Recently changed items. Swapped out 3 coil packs (Delco) two new, one used. New cam shaft sensor. Plugs and wires.


I have a 1992 Bonneville SE with 222,136 miles on it (not supercharged) I had a check engine light come on a 6 months back and the I replaced the Cam Shaft Position Sensor and the light went off. Lately I've had a problem with the car not starting on random occassions. It would crank and then anywhere from 10 to 45 minutes after trying it turns over and then the problem wouldn't occur for weeks. A few days back it died at a light and I started it back up. I drove 45 miles home and the next morning the car wouldn't start. Late that day I did get it to start a few times but it would run for 5 minutes and then die. Now all it does is crank, nothing else. I checked the fuel pump pressure and I have 42 PSI. I jumped the switch and got these codes. 17, 43, 58, and 66 Where do I go from here. I know it's the spark Reference Circuit and Electric Spark Control but does anyone have any light to shead on this so I don't go replacing everything. I'd really appreciate your help, I drive my car 94 miles a day and without it I'm screwed. Thanks.

Mike

After replacing the Camshaft sensor, the check engine light never came on or flashed, there are not lights or warnings (security or engine light.) Just by chance I jumped the DLC and got the codes listed above. I know the codes erase after you disconnect the battery. Prior to replacing the cam shaft sensor one of the codes listed was crank shaft sensor (cam sensor first, then crank.) I took the easier road and replaced the cam sensor and the light went off. Do you think the crank sensor could of been bad too and if so will it regenerate codes after disconnecting the battery?

I'm not worried about the air, I know it's low on Freon. I also have another key that I tried, but haven't cleaned out the enginition switch, I will try that tonight. I'm beginning to think it might be the Crank Shaft Sensor , does anyone have any advice or knowledge of replacing it? Don't I need a special tool to line it up?

I really appreciate your guys advice. Due to the milage my car isn't worth much, so I really try to stay away from taking it in and pumping more money into it than it's worth. I bought my Bonneville with 132,000 in 2000 for 2000 bucks and it's been the most dependable car I've ever owned. I just want to keep her running and see how far I can take her.

Thanks
Mike

This is my work email, so if we continue this on email, be sure to copy my Gmail account in the CC block of this message.

Ignore the 58 code, or any references to Vats, Passkey, cleaning the ignition switch, or key. It's a known bug in your 92 PCM,
and this system doesn't throw PCM codes anyway. They had planned on tying the two systems together in 92, but never did,
which is why you have that code. That code will not cause any problems or set a check engine light.

The camshaft and crankshaft sensors actually work together for a couple functions. Injector pulses and ignition pulses are primarily
the big ones. The camshaft sensor will typically cause starting problems 1 out of 6 attempts (either the interruptor magnet or sensor),
and CAN affect performance by forcing the PCM to default to a 'programmed' limp-mode injector pulse based on other known-good
PCM data (VSS, tach signal, O2, etc.). The CRANKshaft sensor is typically the primary culprit for ignition problems, and I've seen it
NOT set a code in some cars. It's odd. Do keep in mind that the wiring itself may be suspect as well. These problems can be hard
to troubleshoot because it CAN be other problems, including the ICM itself. Based on the difficulty of troubleshooting this problem,
made more difficult because I can't get my hands on your car personally (as much as I'd love to), I can offer you the following:

Spend $15 on Chilton's #28200. It's usually available locally, and is the best aftermarket manual available.

Swap ICM and coil packs from another 3800 (any car from 92-2005) and see if it helps. I still need to know if you have Magnavox
or Delco ignition. Square coil pack, or 3 seperate round packs? In either case, any Delco will swap in, and is preferred over
Magnavox (some 92's got Magnavox, no later years).

Shoot out the wiring from the crank sensor to the PCM. I can give you the pinouts and locations later, my FSM's are at home.

If all this doesn't change the problem, you still have either a crank or camshaft sensor problem. The 1 out of 6 start attempts USUALLY
points to an interruptor magnet or camshaft sensor problem, so you might want to double-check your wiring/installation up there. But
as a disclaimer, it still could be the Crank sensor.

I wish I knew something about the 92 codes...Checking with the vets to see who knows them.

thanks for the message


17 - Spark Reference Circuit
43 - Electronic Spark Control Circuit
58 - Personal Automotive Security System ( PASS Key ) Fuel Enable Circuit

looks as the 58 which is PASS Key is preventing your car from starting. Try to clean your key and the ign cylinder with some rubbing alchol and see what happens

17= Spark Reference Circut ( Does Not Trigger MIL)
43= Knock Sensor (Does Trigger MIL)
58= U miss counted try again. (58 Does not exist according to Chilton's)
66= Excessive A/C Cycling (Low refrigerent charge, Does Not Trigger MIL)

theres a known bug in the 92 PCM......trying to remember which one it is:?

58 is a known bug. Ignore it. Your crank sensor is suspect.

17 == Spark Referance Circuit.
43 == Knock Sensor
58 == PASS-Key II Fuel Enable Ciruit
66 == Excessive A/C Cycling (Low Refridgerant Charge)

The knock sensor is the one that lit the MIL light.

To fix 17: Check the connections at the ICM.

To fix 43:
Disconnect the knock sensor connector and measure the voltage from the connector to ground with the ignition on. It should be 4-6vdc. If this value is low, The ciruit is shorted to ground or the PCM is faulty. If it is high, The circuit may be routed too close to secondary ignition wires, Shorted to voltage, or a faulty PCM.

Measure the resistance from the knock sensor terminal to the engine block. It should be between 3.3K and 4.5K ohms. If it is, Check the harness, Remove the PCM and be sure the PROM is properly seated. If it is properly seated, Replace the PROM. If the resistance of the sensor is not within spec, Remove it and make sure the threads have good contact with the block. If it has good contact with the block, Replace the sensor.

To fix 58:
Clean your key and the inside of the ignition lock with rubbing alcohol.

To fix 66:
Go to a shop, Now may be the time to convert to R134a.

Codes 17, 43, and 66 will still let the car start... Is the security light staying on?


What brand Camshaft sensor did you install?

58 is BOGUS! Ignore it. It's a known bug in the 92 PCM. Forget VATS or the key. A Passkey/VATS fault will NOT set a code.

o0o0o... That's the bogus one... Why can I never remember that?

Read up ^^^^^^^^^^^