icm's and crank sensors
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icm'* and crank sensors
94' bonnie se 3.8 L v-6. 166k miles.changed egr,plugs,wires,replaced a/c compressor bearings,replaced pass. side front hub bearing,replaced transmission,replaced subframe bushings.,what else?...now can icm'* and crank sensors intermittently fail or completely fail with no warning signs?..my car starts on somedays and won't on others.it runs a little rough when I get it running.i've done an icm test which includes the crank sensor test as well on a dead motor..i don't know if I did the test on it when it was previously running.results where inconsistent.i've bent and moved wires while pin piercing a continuity test at the icm connector pins from downstream of wires,cps to icm.all good..i think I even did a coil output check when I checked the icm plate ground.wire..good clean connects.i even did a pin spread test on the icm connector and bent the pins to grab tighter.no difference.i checked at night to see if I got arcing anywhere around coil towers,plugs,etc...I will either start or not hot or cold...sometimes I will get a check engine lite sometimes not it'* intermittent.when I hook up my bumper switch and wiggle a wire or two since their all mashed up together in the bunch I don't know exactly which one it is but motor will start and run..so then naturally I will continue to move the wires around while it is running and make it misfire but that was before I did all of the above.now with my extra long nose pliers I will push,pull,bend each individual wire and no change in firing.it'* just misfiring somewhere...I forgot to mention that I had also pulled the crank pulley off and found a a nice oil leak. I inspected and cleaned the gunk off the cps grooves and the sensor trigger rings on the pulley/damper too.put it all back together turned the key and it started right up.so I thought it was that,then I thought it was the wires at icm..did I mention that it was/is a no spark start condition?.i need to get my hands on a reader that will read my 1 or 1.5 obd pcm...I even did a pcm tap test both startable and not and it didn't make any difference..i just went out in this damp weather and it started a bit different as was it'* usual to get it started up on short starter pulse crank.meaning I could get it to start as soon as I begin to crank it....i'm stumped...any help would be greatly appreciated.thanks..
#2
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Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
94' bonnie se 3.8 L v-6. 166k miles.changed egr,plugs,wires,replaced a/c compressor bearings,replaced pass. side front hub bearing,replaced transmission,replaced subframe bushings.,what else?...now can icm'* and crank sensors intermittently fail or completely fail with no warning signs?..my car starts on somedays and won't on others.it runs a little rough when I get it running.i've done an icm test which includes the crank sensor test as well on a dead motor..i don't know if I did the test on it when it was previously running.results where inconsistent.i've bent and moved wires while pin piercing a continuity test at the icm connector pins from downstream of wires,cps to icm.all good..i think I even did a coil output check when I checked the icm plate ground.wire..good clean connects.i even did a pin spread test on the icm connector and bent the pins to grab tighter.no difference.i checked at night to see if I got arcing anywhere around coil towers,plugs,etc...I will either start or not hot or cold...sometimes I will get a check engine lite sometimes not it'* intermittent.when I hook up my bumper switch and wiggle a wire or two since their all mashed up together in the bunch I don't know exactly which one it is but motor will start and run..so then naturally I will continue to move the wires around while it is running and make it misfire but that was before I did all of the above.now with my extra long nose pliers I will push,pull,bend each individual wire and no change in firing.it'* just misfiring somewhere...I forgot to mention that I had also pulled the crank pulley off and found a a nice oil leak. I inspected and cleaned the gunk off the cps grooves and the sensor trigger rings on the pulley/damper too.put it all back together turned the key and it started right up.so I thought it was that,then I thought it was the wires at icm..did I mention that it was/is a no spark start condition?.i need to get my hands on a reader that will read my 1 or 1.5 obd pcm...I even did a pcm tap test both startable and not and it didn't make any difference..i just went out in this damp weather and it started a bit different as was it'* usual to get it started up on short starter pulse crank.meaning I could get it to start as soon as I begin to crank it....i'm stumped...any help would be greatly appreciated.thanks..
Remove the fuel pump fuse.
With the RED DVOM test lead and a wire piercing probe, test the H wire of the ICM Connector. Pierce as far back as possible from the connector itself.
Connect BLACK wire of the DVOM to the negative battery terminal.
When everything is set up, turn the Crankshaft Pulley by hand in a clock-wise direction while you keep you eyes on the Multimeter. You can use a breaker bar and a socket to do this. Do not use the starter to turn over the engine.
{You should see the voltage change from zero, to 5 or 6 volts and then back to zero, then back to 5 or 6 volts as you turn the engine over.
Did you see the voltage change? }
YES- The ICM is bad and needs replacement.
NO- If you have no pulses, recheck all connections. Try again. If you still have no pulses the 3X CKP Signal from Crankshaft Position Sensor is not being received. Without this Signal the ICM will not spark the Coils. The Crankshaft Position Sensor is bad. Replace it.] what I don't understand here is what does the fuel pump fuse have anything to do with it if you are to not use the starter?.does it really matter how far back away from the connector you need to pierce?.i was piercing the wires before but decided to just stick a large pin into the connector where the wire goes into the connector while it'* connected to the icm.. earlier testing I did remove the fp fuse,turned crank by hand and by starter...anyway,it'* been starting everytime and running until it'* fully hot,then I shut it off and then go to restart it and it will fire up.i did notice that when it'* cold and I goose the pedal to the floor quickly it doesn't misfire and is responsive.i haven't checked to see if it does this also while hot.i am lowering my tstat from the 195 that came with the car down to 185 degrees..they suck in the winter anyway with all that cold wind scooping grill going on ,I have to put waxed cardboard in front of my radiator-that helps a lot on freezing days...I have not drove around to test it in fear of getting stuck somewhere so I don't know if it will like it did when I first got her 6 years ago stall as I come to a stop or coast down stop..it did die as I was accelerating going up a hill once recently.i'm thinking it'* the same symptom..it has also happened many times on the highway as well over the years here and there...one time I know it was fuel cause of my bad sender that I stalled out while driving or sputtered on highway accelerating to even faster than 65 kickdown... it'* as if it gets better with time and runs great and reliable for a year or 2 and then goes back to stalling randomly but a no spark no start cold or hot this is new..i know that these systems don't heal or automatically fix themselves but I don't know what'* going on.do you?..from what I think by seeing is that everything,ie,coils,icm,etc is all original..if it weren't for my rotted underbody I would dump some money into upgrading the entire system..i just need to fix this one last problem and keep her moving for another year?...thanks for the help please.
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