getting very tired of warping rotors, any suggestions?
 

got the car with 68k 3yrs ago and every few months the rotors are warped and shaking again... I cut the first rotors twice, put cheap new ones on it with ceramic pads and had to cut them once already.. is this common with these bonnies or is it just cheap aftermarket rotors? what type of troubleshooting can i do to eliminate this? the rotors shaking like crazy now when i step on em... getting really old...

has anyone seen this or know the problem? :ack:

I had the roughly the same experience with stock rotors, they just can't handel the stress very well. I have since bought a set of slotted rotors from www.domesticperformance.com and I have had no trouble with them at all. I am using cereamic pads with them and stopping is improved, warpage hasn't happened yet, and brake dust is gone. I would recomend the same setup.

Here is the direct link to the rotors if your interested: http://www.domesticperformance.com/p...roducts_id=108

try some different pads.

the old pads did same to old rotors...

i wonder if something else is causing this like calipers or even rear brakes not contributing to brake load (my rears have never needed replacement at yearly inspection)?

Any time you have strong pads with weak/cheap rotors, you're going to have excessive wear or warpage. If you have ceramic pads, I'd get some lifetime rotors, also made from a stronger material.

(This is turning into a personal crusade of mine...)

Make sure the lug nuts are torqued evenly and properly to the right setting, ideally by hand with a torque wrench. Slamming them on with an impact wrench can encourage warping real quick. Yes, you can use torque sticks on the impact wrench, but it's still possible to goof it up, especially if tightening in a circle instead of a star pattern.

also on the torque stick, if your using a brake pedal jack(ie your car is up on a hoist) the torque stick will not be as accurate, you will still need a torque wrench

what would be the way to judge if your using a tire tool instead of a torque wrench? just tighten till you cant tighten anymore without causing a hernia? or 3 grunts and a "hrrrrrrrrrrruuuuh" ?

That's very easy to answer, hoov. Buy a torque wrench and socket. It's worth it. Even a cheapie $20 model.

Abso-tively. Heck, Christmas is coming: Have somebody _give_ you one. :-)

I have a Sears Craftsman MicroTork 1/2"-drive, one that clicks when the setting is reached, and it's been just fine. In addition, I've found that _some_ rotor warping can be relieved just by loosening the lug nuts and re-torquing them properly by hand with the wrench (and don't forget a drop of oil on the lug nut threads before putting them on, to get an accurate reading). I had a neighbor's '89 LeSabre (or something like that) in for some unrelated work and it had terrible warping on the brakes. Had no funds to re-cut or replace the rotors, but I took a half-hour to just re-torque the lug nuts, and there was a noticeable improvement after that.

I'm not saying it will fix warped rotors altogether once they've gone bad, but it can minimize the problem.

thanks, yea i could imagine meineke or pepboys just zinging the lugs on with a big impact wrench... I had no idea to check that they're evenly torqued

Deathrat, if you are reading, in a recent post you said "Just change the rotor, but make sure you check the front caliper leakage or any signs of siezing up. In other words, make damn sure it retracts freely or that new rotor will be garbage in no time", you don't possibly think this has been my problem all along? I would assume the brake techs would have told me if this condition existed the last 4 times in the shop? I will have to have this checked also this time around...

this thing just keeps tearing up rotors, ive never seen a car do this and ive had many, so i think there may be more to it than unevenly torqued lugs.... maybe the cheapo aftermarket rotors are really poor quality and the OEMs (list over $100 each) are super heavy duty, hence their price .... maybe i need some heavy duty rotors, though i am leery of the slotted rotors, they say their only for racing applications and induce more heat than preferred in a street application - see link below for some cool high performance brake rotor information -


http://www.pureperf.com/brakes/Frequently_ask.html

:lol: One grunt and a hrrrrrrrrrruuuuh. I've had ceramic pads and OEM rotors on since June, and I havent had any issues. But those RSM's will be as good as bought when these ones go. :wink:

This past weekend I had the car realigned. They said I needed new front pads. Well, they never removed the front wheels so I don't see how they can be so sure just by looking at the front calipers. But, it's been 50,000 miles since I replaced the pads(mostly highway driving) so it is possible that it's time. My question is, do I stay with the Delco DuraStop pads or should I upgrade to DuraStop Ceramic? I know the advantages of the Ceramic pads but what do you hear about the disadvantages of using Ceramic pads with the stock rotors??

Oh, and as a side note to srgetz, I tried using cheap rotors and drums from China and the results were basically what you described. Stick with US Steel. Yeah, the price is more than you bargained for, but you'll be replacing your rotors a LOT Less.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

you should NEVER use any lubrication on the lugs for a couple reasons.....
#1) the COULD in theory spin off...
#2) the torque spec (100 ft/lbs) is for a CLEAN DRY fastener.. by adding oil to it you are making a lubricated fastener, and 100 ft/lbs may be more like 130+ you dont know... because the lug is not *SUPPOSED* to be lubricated.... (unless your having difficulty taking them off, then a drop of penetrating oil will work, and you SHOULD clean it off)

THAT's the brakes!!! Thanks jr. I really don't mind dusting(brake dust) once a week!

i have Wagner Thermoquiets on mine right now. pretty much the best the auto parts store had in the 50 dolla ranger.the delcos were tryin to rip me a new one. any of you guys have any experience with those? they seem to be working fine.

Sorry, but it's YEEESSSSSSSSS. Seriously. One drop. It's the same when torquing cylinder head bolts (which take even less torque): a _small_ amount of oil is put on the threads to ensure an accurate torque setting. Bolts are not torqued dry.

No, sorry, but it simply isn't going to spin off when it's torqued to 100 ft./lbs.

Torque is torque. All the wrench is measuring is the exertion of turning the nut. The purpose of the process is to put a predetermined tensile (i.e. stretching) load on the wheel lug to hold the wheel tightly and evenly to the rotor. By calculating the angle of the threads, the diameter of the lug and so on, it's possible to determine how much torque is required on the nut to produce a certain tensile load on the lug, and that torque on the Bonneville is 100 ft./lbs.

I know what you're concerned about and no one is saying that you should load up the lugs with white lithium before putting the nuts on, but _one_ drop of light oil on the threads is used to get an accurate torque reading.

Try it and see: torque one wheel absolutely dry to 80 ft./lbs., then 90, then 100, in 10-ft.lb. increments, tightening in a star pattern as usual. Chances are you may find one or more lug nuts won't turn any further between the 80, 90 and 100 settings.

Now torque another wheel in the same manner, but add one drop of oil to the threads before putting the nut on. You should now find that as you progress from 80 to 90, and from 90 to 100, you can actually get a bit more turning on each lug nut before the wrench clicks. That's as it should be: a torque setting of 80 ft./lbs. exerts a different tensile load than 100 ft./lbs., and so to get from one to the other you will need to turn the nut a little bit more.

our auto parts stores are crazy here. well actually i just looked at the Oeilly website and they had OEM brake pads for 70 bucks. and semi-metallic for like 55. maybe i shouldve gotten those. oh well too late now. my family has used wagners off and on and never had any trouble i guess.although from the massive rotor warpage reports around here i might just invest in some better rotors eventually.

I am a counter person at a Federated auto parts store here in WI, and I too have had similar experiences on my 1997 SSE before it was totalled,I have not changed the brakes on my 98 SSEI yet, Raybestos issued a bulletin to all of us who sell their brakes that the Ceramic (quietstop) pads are not for use on the 99 and older Bonnevilles, They do not shed heat as quick as a semi metallic, also the rotors are relatively small for the size/weight of the car it has to stop.

Buy a good semi metallic pad- either Raybestos PG Plus pads or performance friction semi-metallic pads are ok too.

Use a slotted and crossdrilled premium rotor- Raybestos has these available for our cars in their Brutestop line, They start with OE quality (matching pattern and # of cooling vanes, and CORRECT hub mating surface, and tighter clearances than any economy rotor, They also have VSM which is vehicle specific metallurgy, which means your new severe duty rotors are made of the metal that match the spcs of the ones that came OEM on it.
The rotors are then drilled and slotted, these rotors have exceptional braking, are quiet and produced by the largest Brake parts manufacturer in North America, they run a little over $100 each, But are well worth it.

thanks for all the info...

It sounds like my problem is a combination of ceramic w/ cheap rotors, and lugs just zipped on with an impact wrench on top of everything!

Thanks GTX Cowboy, I was considering keeping the ceramic pads till i read that post! Wish they knew about the problem back when I bought them!

I'm going to get OE or hi-po rotors and some OE durastop pads and torque everything properly.

I just love happy endings! :banana:

If you install your rotors properly... discussed quite a bit, then a stock rotor under mild use is ok. I have had new replacements professionally installed and with good semi pads. Still destroyed the rotors in no time flat. I did this for years…


Who wants to spend all their time figuring out all the nuances of brake work and then argue with the guy installing them. Not me.

I have destroyed RSM rotors but I had to work at it and I mean no seasoning just hammered on and straight up to Canada from Cali. Then back and then back to Canada and back again. On the way there the second time I was able to destroy them but they faired much better than stock rotors when warped (hard spots). There was more than 9 months between the drives. I have another solution coming that is much better for the person who destroys rotors and it will give you a friendlier relationship with your brakes.

Oh and the best ceramic Pad is the new Bendix. Take a look..

Ty

What? They are taking you for a ride man...

If they had it on a lift they might be able to see the side of the pad material and determin how much is left. If the car never left the ground (really damn hard to see in there then) then I would agree with BonneMeMN.

That's exactly it. The tech that worked on my car did have it on a lift and was able to see the outer pad through the wheels. Just to keep him honest(and make it easier to zap some grease into the grease fittlings) I removed the front wheels today to get an better perspective on the true condition of the front brakes. And the tech was basically correct. I will need new pads soon. Not tomorrow, but I should replace them within the next couple of months.

The tech was probably looking at the scrapper on the pad and seen it was close to contacting the rotor. Not to throw another angle at you, but lugnut torque is the leading cause of warping rotors, the main contributing factor to that is also heat. I had a caliper sticking on me once and a buddy of mine (Professional mechanic, I'm just a hobbiest) told me that it's common for the brake hose to collapse (seems they have an inner liner) When you apply pedal pressure, the fluid would run to the caliper, the inner liner would collapse, and wouldnt allow the fluid to return back keeping the caliper piston extended. I would drive it about 2 blocks down the road, come back and the rim was extremely hot to the touch. It ended being a 25 dollar fix.

I, too have killed the RSM's. Not bad, but still warped. To their credit, I TRIED to kill them. They finally warped after a long time under very extreme circumstances. I still reccommend them, but I'm waiting to see Ty's new little secret. I may have to be a test car again ;)

anyone hear about these?

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...Grooved+Rotors
http://www.ebcbrakes.com

Any good thoughts I would have had were just dashed. Why go for the 'look' when it costs surface area (braking power) and adds no benefit?

Stay as far away from these as you can. Any company that sacrifices performance and safety for a 'look' is a company I don't want to deal with.

this looks like some serious, high performance rotors... believe it or not, they are cryogenically treated rotors and are supposed to be 1-3x stronger than the same rotor not treated, also only around $180 / pair, i found this in another truck & RV forum where they seemed to really like them for severe duty use, take a look see...

http://www.frozenrotors.com