Camshaft Sensor Causing Misfire!!! Yeah!
 

I promised Willwren that I wouldn't throw any more money at my shudder at highway speeds until I could get some engine codes. I lucked out this morning and it threw a code my way at long last! I never though I'd be so happy about something like this.

Here's the report:

I am incredibly happy to have something to work on. Now, I just need to make sure that replacing the Camshaft Position Sensor might be the right way to go. It's $26, so I'm not concerned about the cost or the actual replacement.

Is this the way to go or should I be looking for something else?

what ho? methinks a solution to possibly be found?! is THIS the ailment from which a surging bonneville could be suffering?! what say you good men? have i been delivered from my ghastly torment by the fiendish TORQUE CONVERTER in the black lands of OVERDRIVE? wassail!

We've been suggesting all along that these problems of yours, bignews, are ignition-related. 9/10 of these problems are. In your case, you need to get a scantool on it to verify.

On the camshaft position sensor, it can be the sensor, or the interuppter magnet. Either can do the same, or wiring. It's in a rather abusive spot.

Now, you said that the testing on a Cam Pos Sensor is flakey? Is it worth pulling and testing or just replacing?

When things last pointed to it last summer, a friend who worked in a shop and was just finishing his EE degree focusing on auto and aviation electrical systems told me he didn't believe that a magnet could wear out. In this case, the magnet has to still be there, I've got to think, or the code would trigger more often than once in a while.

What makes the sensor so hard to get to? I've been looking for it on the passenger side of the engine. There must be a cover over it or I might have to pivot the Alternator up out of the way? My repair book is in the car. I'll look through it tomorrow for details, but anyone with experience, feel free to chime in!

Magnets CAN be intermittent....your buddy's EE degree just got upset by a Mechanical degree. The magnet comes loose, and gets misplaced sometimes. Magnets stick to steel and go for a ride ;)

But it could still be a flaky sensor or wiring. There are several posts here on this subject, but I may be confusing the crank sensor with the .....no, the cam sensor uses the magnet, the crank sensor has an interruptor ring. Pretty sure I'm on track here.

Buy Chilton's #28200 manual for about fifteen bucks. It'll take you right through it.

Good deal. I'll give it a shot and report back.

Thanks again!

It's not hard at all to replace, just jack the car up, pull the right front wheel, as well as the access cover, and you should see the connector right behind the water pump pulley. I did mine 3 days ago.. It didn't take long at all.. but my magnet is messed up :( Anyone have a time estimate on one of those?

Did the replacement. The shudder is still happening. I'm wasn't completely convinced that the Cam Pos Sensor was the cause, but when I finally got a code I could do something about, I jumped on it. I suppose I could still have bad wires, but the code only popped up the other day and hasn't come back since (before or after the replacement). I'll drop by and get codes scanned again tomorrow. No reason that it couldn't be the wires or a weak magnet, right? The old sensor had a little oil on it. I'm assuming that that's normal. I suppose I should mention that in case it's not.

One thing I've been thinking about is using Sea Foam or Top Engine Cleaner through the vacuum hose. I know this will do my engine good whether it fixes it or not. What are the chances that it could smooth the engine out, too? Is there extra magic in the GM stuff?

I'm still looking for parts to replace just because they're worn out even if they're not quite dead. Would the EGR Valve be in this class? Could it just be cleaned with some electronics cleaner?

I see several post about replacing the crank position sensor.
On a 1992 SSEI does the harmonic Balancer have to be pulled ? You guy's saying thats its no probelm must have VERY little hands .. or else the magic tool which I dont have.
Mine is stuck behind a double pulley on the balancer. Any tricks or suggestions ?

JLathem

1992 SSEI

the sensor itself is a piece of cake to replace but on my ride it wasnt the only problem. i had to replace the little magnet also and it was a pain in the but because it is with the timing chain and you might as well replace the timing chain while you are in there. just to let you know. hopefully you wont have to go that route also. i have a friend who's service engine light came on and i got him one out of the junkyard because my friend gave it to me becasue i spend alot of the time at the junkyard. havent put it on yet but that was the only code he threw at me

Verifying that magnet is a big must right now.

The cam sensor and crank sensor will almost ALWAYS set a code.....so I wouldn't reccommend shotgunning one unless you actually have the code.

The top end cleaner will help, but I doubt it'll solve your stumbling problem. Cleaning the TB would have a greater effect, but I think you need to look at the wiring to and from the sensor, and verify the magnet's existence first.

Sounds like taking it to a shop will be a priority, then. Any time estimates on testing wires and looking forand potentially replacing the magnet?

Wires can be done by you if you can find someone with a 94 FSM to give you the pinouts back to the PCM plugs. Shouldn't take but a few minutes. I'd use alligator clips on the leads, then go through and bend/pull the wires everywhere while you watch the meter.

Someone that's replaced the magnet will have to chime in on that issue.

Got another code on the way downtown today. I didn't feel anything. When the camshaft position sensor threw the code it jerked hard. This time I didn't feel anything. Maybe this one's differant. I sure hope so. I haven't had time to get this to a shop. Maybe next week. I'm saving my pennies for a Garmin GPSMAP 60CS. I think I'd rather lose the car than not get that unit.

Yep. Still the same code. So, I have two options as I see it...

1) Get the necessary tools and equipment to check the magnet and the wiring. Since I'm in an apartment, I'll probably need to find a friend with garage space and a free weekend. Then if I find a wiring issue, how do I fix it? Standard wire and twist nuts from Lowes? I'm guessing not. Soldering? Is replacing the magnet an afternoon job and should I just go ahead and replace the timing belt/chain while I'm in there if I need to be there anyway?

2) Give up and take it to a shop. Suppose I could get away for less than $200? The sensor's new, so at least one part is free from blame and cost.

I picked up some Seafoam and Mobile One the last time I had the codes run. Running that stuff through the vacuum hose was fun. I'm sure the neighbors downwind hate me now. I couldn't see their house 50 feet away!

I've started noticing some electrical fluctuations recently. For instance the lights flicker a bit when the sound system is turned up and the bass kicks in. Tonight I was playing a CD with the ignition in ready so I could put the windows down. The darn thing shut off three times. The paln is three fold, since I don't own a mister. In the morning I'll get the battery and altenator checked since they've lasted 2 years longer than any other pair I've had. (5 altenators in the first five years I had the car. Sound familiar?) Then on the way home, I'll get a plant mister to do the arc search. If nothing's shown up, I'll take it in to have the wires looked at.

Good plan?

http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/a/padgett46/cammag.htm

I am giving you some valuable information that was passed on to me. I had a code "41" (cam position sensor) Car ran like total excrement. Changed the sensor and it wasn't the whole problem, though it was damaged in the "magnet disintegration process".

I jacked the car up, properly supported it, removed the passenger side front wheel and the black plastic inspection cover. It is in the inner fender, to the right of the front axle, and is about a foot long and held in by three plastic rivets. Carefully grasp the small rivet head and pull out - it should pop out, and then you can remove the rivets.

Behind the cover is the harmonic (Crank) pully. If you grab a flashlight, and go up to 10'o clock on the pully, behind it there is a sensor with a harness covered in corregated wire loom. It is held in by a 3/8" bolt. Unplug the sensor, move the wire away and remove the sensor. Follow the procedure outlined at the above site very carefully, and you will save about $300 or more in labor and be back on the road in no time!

Two cautions: a) make DARN SURE your timing components are okay, especially in a higher-mileage bonnie. If they are not, spend the big bucks and get it all done at a shop. and b) I am a fairly small guy (5'6") and can fit into the wheel-well area (note the term above "properly supported" -- if the car goes somewhere, there is nowhere to run to - use jackstands, heck use TWO jackstands!). A bigger fellow may have trouble in tight quarters such as these!

My hope is that this procedure will benefit you like it did me. Be sure to use JB Weld -- it's stronger than the factory plastic tabs, in my opinion!

God bless!

I'll pitch in my two cents worth. I have a '92 SSEi and HAD been chasing electrical/stumbling/hestitation problems for around 4 years. I'm 90% certain I've solved the problem (knock on wood). It was a combination of the alternator and the ingnition wires.

Ignition wires:
I've been going through new sets of wires every year since I've owned the car. Each time the stumbling/hestitation problem(s) would improve slightly but not totally and it would never last very long. I finally got a break last month when one of the wires (on #4 cylinder) went bye-bue and disconnected itself from the boot. This happened due to excessive heat... I immediately found a high temp set of plug wires from Accel for around $70 for the set. Installed them and the problems all went away.

Alternator:
When I bought the car the Alt. gave it up the first week. I bought a 105Amp Alt (hey, what did *I* know??), installed it and the unit lasted until last month. I know I got lucky that an Alternator would last 4 years, but it did. Sort of... it was actually contributing to my electrical/stumbling/hesitation problems and I didn't know it. I noticed that the bearings going bad as they were squeaking and producing metal shavings all over the engine belts. I discovered this when the Water Pump went south. So being of better educated mind (thanks to this website!!) I purchased a 140Amp Alternator and installed it. A tight fit but worth it. Now I have no more hesitation/stumbling or electrical troubles at all. The car has never run this good since I've bought it.

What's the complication of removing the timing cover and doing it the old fashioned way? Wouldn't I need to do this if I want to make sure my timing components are good?

The other thing I'm thinking about is whether the Cam Sensor code comes on all the time if the magnet's missing. I would think it would, but there may be a reason that it wouldn't.

Complications are twofold:
 

Where the trouble lies is not really the cover itself, or the water pump -- which my manual says can stay on the cover provided you remove the two largest bolts. The problem lies with the motor mount, which needs to be removed, and the harmonic balancer (crank) pulley, which also needs to be removed. THis requires care and special tools. Oh yeah, you also involve the crank sensor -- if it hasn't been replaced yet (mine was last year - have documentation) you better replace it. Takes ANOTHER special tool.

By the time you buy all the stinkin' "special tools" (one time use only, probably, unless you are a mechanic or have relatives that have plenty of 3800's that need work) you are already close to the labor cost for a guy with tools, expertise and a lift to do it. Plus you don't get dirty or suffer from herniated discs.

I must be getting old... it's getting easier and easier to recommend hiring help to do stuff. If cost is an issue, though, and you have mechanical ability, the J B Weld procedure turned off my SES light and turned the power back on!

What is this JB weld trick you keep speaking of? I got a endless supply of that crap what all can you fix on bonnies with that? :lol:

J B Weld is good stuff.... I used it on my interrupter magnet for the cam sensor. Runs good -- except for other issues not related to the cam sensor. I'm thinking the module is puking, or something.