94 SSE has spark and fuel but will not start, please help
 

Ok yall, first my car, now moms 94. A wiring harness got loose and well the belt ate through it so we had it towed home this morning, my granddad spiced the wires together with butt splice connectors, car fired right up, i opened the garage door to back it out, and almost as soon as i hit the garage door button, the car stalled, and will not start again. He took the alternator back off and rechecked everything, it was all ok, turned the car over with the alt. off and it started so we cut if off real quick, put it all back together, and poof it wont start again, so he did the same thing again, and it still wont start at all now, it has spark, and fuel going to the engine, but it will not start, could it be the crank sensor, or what do u guys think, i have a code reader thing but it is in my car and mom had to take that this morning but any advice would be much appreciated

If you have verified ignition spark, then I'm thinking the crank sensor is not the fault.

Could it be the coil pack??? I need my car back. I hate to have to put it in the shop if I don't have to cuz funds are low and Christmas is around the corner and so is Jeff's birthday.

PLEASE HELP!! :help:

If you have spark, it isn't the coil pack or crank sensor.

Please verify spark at all 6 cylinders. Make sure no spark plug wires were damaged and may be arcing or shorting by starting the car in the dark and misting clean water over the engine with a spray bottle.

How did you verify fuel? I suggest pulling the fuel rail and injectors and cranking. Make sure all of them fire (do this with a large pan obviously).

Sounds like you verified spark and fuel, but make sure at all 6 of each if you know what I mean.

Which harness was damaged, and exactly HOW was it? Was ANYthing else damaged?

Just off the phone with Bill and John.

You are running until everything is back together. This leads me to think one of those butt connectors isn't holding very well and when all is in place it has pressure on it that's causing a short or issue.

Look for other wires that may have gotten beaten by the belt. Also if at all possible get some wire, solder and a 100/140 watt soldering gun. Solder the wires back together, the butt connectors will work short term and probably corrode over the next few months. Simple oxygen will corrode the copper and keep if from making a good connection.

After that I think you'd probably be good. If not I'd think there was yet another wire somewhere that isn't making a good connection. Also check the plug wires for any arching or scorched marks. The check engine light is most likely because of a misfire with the ignition cutting out on you.

ok my code reader is not getting a response from the vehicle, which never happens, i pulled the puter, and plugged it back in and it cranked, ran and stalled immediately but that is the most we have gotten from the car in 2 days, so im gonna try to replace that from a wrecker yard tomorrow and see what happens, i know to change the prom chip from one to the new one, this car goes through puters like candy

Not a bad thought. With a major electrical problem like that, the PCM could suffer.

well did the puter and nothing, still doing the same thing, had a mechanic come over from next door with a fuel injector tester thingy and there is no electricity going to the injectors it is getting spark and fuel is going to them, but there is no juice going to the electical connection, or something like that, i guess it was a light and did didnt come on. please help as the car will prolly go in the shop if noone can help doesnt help

Injector duty cycle is determined by the cam sensor. However, if it fails, the injectors SHOULD run in a default inefficient state.

This is a new one on me. With the PCM ruled out (assuming you patched in a good unit), the injectors should be doing SOMETHING.

Nevermind, she is going into the shop today. Thanks anyways for the suggestions!

start
 

If you have no injector pulse but have spark, the crank sensor is working. The ICM or PCM may be at fault or could have a bad connector.

Re: start
 

Or the cam sensor. It provides a pulse for the injectors through the PCM.

The problem can still be in the crank sensor or ICM

There are 2 parts to the crank sensor, and if eithr one of them fails the car will be left with a no start condition...

One part of the crank sensor is for spark and the other is for the fuel pulse circuit... And the cam sensor is for a Cylinder #1 reference pluse so that the PCM will be able to run in true Sequintial Fuel Injection mode... Without that pulse, the car will start in run but will never enter SFI mode, and at times will run crappy...

I feel that it could possibly be the Crank sensor or the ICM...

Let us know what the problem was and what the fix is...

Remember, we all learn from these problems.. ;)

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Jeff talked to the shop and they sent a guy out to the junkyard to pick up some wiring harness' as they think this may be the cause. I will let you know something later today

NO GO on the wiring harness. the mechanic says it doesn't look good= translation- I better bend over and not expect a kiss afterwards.

I am so f'ing frustrated y'all can't even imagine!!!!

The car is STILL in the shop. The mechanics have NO idea but think it has something to do wth the theft deterrent. These mechanics are very good and are good to deal with BUT I am losing my mind cuz I want my car back.

The saga continues...

Did they by chance find any codes stored in the computer? Possible a theft deterent code?

Are they by chance getting any pulse from the PCM to the injectors?

I'm almost at a loss here..

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theft
 

wouldn't have spark and fuel if it was the theft deterent system.
did you check for injector pulse?

Jeff said the only code it threw was QDM 1 (I think), the mechanic called me the other day and asked me what all we replaced. I told him we re-spliced the wires and replaced serpentine belt, crank shaft sensor, and computer. He then said he needed those parts (which were in the car) because they believe it has something to do with theft deterrent. Jeff talked to him later that day and told him that my key has that chip in it and I can pull out the key if the car is running and could that have anything to do with this mess. He didn't know. If it turns out to be an ignition problem- are they expensive to replace??

Not sure what the problem is...

The QDM#1 fault will not keep the car from running, but it will turn on the SES light...

The Theft Deterent system detects the key or resistance in the chip when you go to start the car, if it detects the proper current, it will turn on the fuel enable circuit, once the car is running the theft deterent system can fail, but the car will continue to run untill you shut it off... At which point it will not restart...

I still agree that they need to check and see if they are getting a fuel pulse at the injectors.


Another thought that just hit me...

Guys help me out here...

Haven't we seen the little wires in the steering collum break before?

And isn't there a bypass for the VATS?

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Well, they say they can remove the key while in run, so I'd guess a new ignition switch is in order to begin with. So those VATS wires are definitely suspect.

Okay, time for a really stupid question: What is VATS???? I don't recall ever hearing that terminology.

I do know CAI & MAF so I am paying attention. lol

VATS or PassKey is the little chip in the key, the contacts and wires in the switch that read the resistance (one of 16 possible) to determine the right key is inserted, and the module under the dash itself. (Vehicle Anti-Theft system)

Without the proper key properly READ, you will not start. This is ONE possibility on that car.

The VATS wires in the column are rather delicate. Do you have a SECURITY light on while trying to start?

Vehicle Anti Theft System. And the explanation is correct above

I know all the lights are on when I start it. It seems like when I shut it off and open the door the security light is flashing. I will have Jeff call the mechanic and mention those VATS wiring. Thanks for the ray of hope guys!! :bsmooch:

Tracy, you may want to look up the vats threads.

The light should flash upon door opening.

UPDATED!!!
 

I got her back today!!! And it only cost me $404.12. Turns out the problem had to do with the A/C bracket breaking, shifting, cutting wires, belt and then in turn causing a VATS problem. They charged me a whole bunch for labor and $75 for the towing. Luckily I had the money to pay for it. Jeff picked her up and drove her home. He said she glides down the highway so smoothly. I can't wait to drive her!!!!

Glad to here everything is well again.

Re: UPDATED!!!
 

What she means to say is that the a/c bracket broke, causing the unit to shift a little, but just enough to move the belt over to the wires*there used to be a shield there but it was missing at the time* and the belt went through the wiring harness. when that happened it shorted out the computer and when me and my granddad changed the computer, which we have done several times before, this time unfortunately, it triggered the anti theft system disabling the car, so it was a domino reaction pretty much that is now fixed and also it fixed a couple of other issues as well, go figure :roll: but it is all good now and she is back

She is back to the f***ing shop!! She broke down on me this morning doing the same thing she did before. She was running FINE and then she just stalled. I know she has spark and fuel (my dad checked that)

I am so pissed off it isn't even funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I asked my dad to talk to the mechanic because I might just cuss him out if not. He is a good mechanic with a great reputation but he had the car for over 2 weeks and STILL didn't get it fixed right. WTF :evil: