1994 Pontiac Bonneville Problems!!!
 

I have a 1994 pontiac Bonneville with a 3800 engine, 6 cyl...Recently it has started to give me problems with cranking It just turns and turns but does not crank up..the first time it did it I was thinking it was low in gas..but it is full now and it does it just on ocassions...

it mostly cranks good but every now and then i go out and it won't start out of the blue...mostly it happens when i have just gotten out of it then 30 minutes or so later it won't crank..but it does not do this all the time..today it happened but before this it has driven good for about a week with no problems...so I am guessing the problems only happen after it has been warmed....

but i have cranked it after it has been warmed so it happens on occasion after being just driven within the previous hour or so....I would appreciate any help with this...thanks

My guess would lie on either the CrankShaft position sensor, the coil packs, or the ignition module. (My car has had all 3 of those go bad before, and they all had the same symptoms exactly as you described.)

thanks for your quick reply to my problem..are these things easy to replace or is there a way to pin-point which it is?

Hey thanks Jr :D

they do sell these parts at autozone right?

thanks

Ever notice how the PITA parts are cheap, and the easy parts are spendy?

:lol:

i just bought the sensor 40 bucks forit right from the dealership so you can prob get it cheaper elsewhere. thats canadian

ok Great! :D

Have you guys ever thought of it being the starter? It would explain why it's starting some times and not others...there could be a bald spot in the starter where the teeth aren't grabbing...and when the car moves, the position of the teeth do too...so you could have worn a spot in the starter.

i think what you are thinking of is a flat spot on the flywheel

Yea...that's it..hehe...i knew what I was talking about...honest...but "someone" was diverting my attention...hahha....

+ok..If it were the starter of flywheel shouldn't it start right up after it passes that spot?... It just turns over and over and over sometimes with no signs of cranking..then about an hour later when i go out it fires right up!

Let me know what you guys/gals think


Hey thanks for the replies!

i still think the sensor....does it start cold and not hot? or sometimes hot and cold and sometimes not cold?

Sounds like the gear that the starter throws into the flywheel is not getting thrown into the flywheel

ok.when i first start it for the day..it cranks fine...If I go to the store or something..come back...and say 15-20 minutes later i need to make another run..it won't start/..It just turns over and over but not actually starting.

If I were to wait about an hour or so before attempting to restart it ..itwill usually start right up.

now..it only does this on occassion..sometimes i can go places back-to back with no problems.

Autozone say they can test the coil packs and tell me if one is bad or not????
and the sensor or module etc. cost well over 100 bux. that's why i want to try and narrow it down!

up to this point these are teh things that i have been told to be the possible culprit:

:arrow: coil pack
:arrow: Crank postion sensor
:arrow: ignition module
:arrow: worn key which could cause bad starting..something to that effect
:arrow: cam position sensor
:arrow: starter
:arrow: possible flywheel

other possibilities:
:arrow: plugs/wires..installing them today
:arrow: fuel filter
:arrow: bad gas..no


Now here's the deal..I have only had this car for like 2 1/2 months....drove fine never had a problem with it..and i have been driving it..believe me..then about 2 weeks ago this started to happen :shock:

well Thanks you guy's/girl's for trying to help me..I am guessing a diagnostic tool would be my best bet? or would it not help me much unless there is a engine light on???

Also where could i get a good one..that could possibly go to my other cars too??

1. dodge neon 95
2. toyota corolla...92
3. dodge ram pickup 84

thanks all :D

the fact that you cay it turns over n over but wont turn the rest of hte engine over...i really think its that sensor or the coil packs. and since i just had the same prob and mine was hte crank sensor i lean on that even more.

Hey how much did the crank sensor cost?

ok I c in the earlierpost it is for 40 bux?

Coil pack-no. Your car runs fine after it starts. You can check them yourself, anyway. Procedure in Techinfo.

Ignition module...possible considering the problem seems to be heat related.

Crank sensor, possible.

Worn key, no. The car wouldn't crank over at all.

Starter/flywheel...possible, unless the car is actually cranking over. If it's cranking, but not starting, this isn't a possible problem.

Plugs/wires/ fuel filters are all good things to change, but generally won't prevent your car from starting. You really need to have some codes pulled.

hey UI appreciate the information..I had just pulled the coil packs and were about to take them in.. So most likely it is a sensor?

I may let autozone test My car for free!

Thanks

Go with the scan first. It could save you alot of time and headaches, not to mention the costs from shotgunning a problem like this. Even a good mechanic can steer you in the wrong direction, if he's not familiar with the 'personality' of the Buick 3800.

ok went to autozone and advanced auto parts to have codes pulled and the tool reads link error each time it was tested..one autozone worker stated that they changed the conectors or something that year and it won't read...

he said it's for a 94 and up but maybe my car was manufactured in 93 and was just called a 94....afterwards I looked and it was manufactured in March 1994 so that had nothing to do with it right?

anyway they said they could test the Ignition module...under the coil packs and he said it failed and he tested it twice..but then he turned around and said that it is a possibility that this is not your problem even thought the machine said it failed i would get another opinion from the dealer/etc..and if i purchase one from them it cannot be refunded if the problem persists!

I had asked some questions about a scan tool on the neon site that I am a member of and one person said this:

does that mean anything?

thanks again

He tested it twice and it failed twice! I am going to take it to the other autozone across town and see if it fails or pass there..If he mjust tested the module and it fail..is it a sure possibility that there is something wrong with it?

When he tried to pull the obd codes he got link error 3 times

advanced auto got it twice

the other autozone got link error twice also!

I had a similar problem with my 94 SSEi, cam and crank position sensors were bad, however, my car was throwing CEL's at me every time I started it. Is yours?

Hey thanks for your help..They all had the same scan tool an Orange actron..that they plugged right in....all came up with the no link error..where did you get your tool?

thanks

does you scantool company have a website that could probably have the same exact tool?

thanks!

ok what is best to get from autozone?

thanks

Here is the thing..My cel light has come on before..but it goes off when I turn the switch off and back on again..

Maybe that is a clue to figuring this all out

The light will not come back on for a while.actually..no light while driving..sometimes when i first start it it will come on then if i turn caroff and re-start then the light will be off ad not come back on again for a few more days..so it comes on intermittently..not at everystart-up but never while driving and never twice in a day no matter how mant times i restart

hey all I am taking it to the shop tomorrow..they quoted me over the phone that it will be about 30 bux to put it onthe machine..(i know it will be more expensive when I get it there) Anyways more people have responded with things that they think could be the culprit.
1. Anti-theft Security????
2.EGR valve
3. tcc selenoid ..tranny problems????
and one guy responded with this:

4.i worked on my bosses bonneville and it had all sorts of strange codes, stalling, backfiring and not running periodically. The computer also would engage the starter for no reason while it was running. We found that the air plenum on top of the engine was warped and allowing antifreeze into the engine. Ended having to do a head job and a new air plenum. I guess the mixture of antifreeze in the system was causing all kinds of faults with the computer. Not saying this is what you are having but GM let us know that the air plenum was a very common problem. May be worth taking off and looking in the intake. My bosses intake was flooded when I removed the air plenum.


now one last thing..i hear you just about have to pull the motor to get to the cam sensor/crank sensor..is that true?

thanks

A couple of comments here that I have learned.

The Series II N/A engine using a plastic upper intake manifold (plenum) and due to heat in the engine, it causes the manifold to warp and crack allowing coolant in....which is bad!!! :cry: It usually results in new heads and major engine work. The SC'd version however has a supercharger as its intake manifold....not plastic. Also the Series I 3800's have aluminum intakes I believe. The cracking of the intake manifold is inevitable. It can be slowed with a 180T-stat.

As for the cam sensor (code 41) I have this problem too, the cam magnet is broken and in order to fix it, it requires major labour to pull the engine apart to get to the cam shaft. Usually, when a mechanic or a "pro" is in there, they will replace your timing chain. I have been quoted 4-5 hrs at $85 an hr/plus parts. Jrs3800 had the same cam magnet/cam sensor problem. But he had the resources to fix it outside of a shop. Some of us are not so lucky. I just live with the problem. It affects my performance tho... :cry:

I didn't think this was such a problem on newer (ie 95's etc) only on the older 3800's

does that code 41 cause your car not to start!

New question: Is there anyway to easily inspect the upper intake to see how much it has been affected by the heat, and maybe see if it has/is abou to fail?

No..code 41 does not affect start up at all. However, (correct me if I'm wrong here people) the cam magnet and cam shaft align the pistons to fire in the correct sequence. Sometimes, since the magnet is gone, the cylinders are not properly aligned and the car sputters on acceleration. This happens maybe once every 6 starts of so.

The pedal feels a but mushy too. However, when I feel the mushy pedal or sputter, I turn off the car and restart it. That seems to work. There are times, however, when the start up is normal and the car peforms better then new. The pedal has lots of resistance and the accel is normal...if not lively!

Based on my limited knowledge of mechanical systems, this is the best summary I can give. :wink:

If I had a Series II N/A I might know, I'm stuck with a Series I N/A, sorry, the "pros" will help you out :wink:

But as a good hint, if you don't have a 180 T-stat or tranny cooler and you are nearing 100K miles...it might be worth looking at

Hey All I went to the local dealers today to get my car checked and they found no problems :shock: no stored codes in the computer or anything..What am I to do???


I went ahead and got a used ignition module..since mine had failed twice..I had the used one tested also at the same autozone and it passed twice..so I'll put that on later ...I am also changing the plugs and wires..and the fuel filter.


I hope some of this stuff helps!

Later and thanks to all that tried to help me on this :D

update..since I replaced the ignition module I have not had this problem...thanks all and here's Hoping!