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Old 09-01-2016, 05:20 PM   #11
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Im out. Sorry to have bothered you all and put you into such a tizzy. As ive said a certified mechanic friend of mine said this was possible, also i read three websites that showed how along with some videos. I have also since read some saying you are right and i was wrong. To be honest im tiring of the arguement. Thank you all for your input. Im simply trying to find out why my car wont crank instead of debating whether one website says this and another said that. Thank you all for your time and input.
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Old 09-01-2016, 05:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamE View Post
Did not see a long list, most things in the list only mention OBD, which would be pre-OBD 2, only seen one actual link that said you could get info without a scanner, and it did not involve using a paper clip, it was a Dodge 2006 grand caravan, and if you cycled the key on to off 3x you'd get the code(*) displayed on the speedo/console...
Not trying to criticize you at all, but for your cars sake read things thoroughly before trying to attempt them.
To get the code stored in there you will need a scan tool without a doubt!


Many Chrysler products have a feature where you can cycle the key off and on 3 times to retrieve the codes. Pontiac does not have this capability.
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Old 09-01-2016, 05:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread1962 View Post
Im out. Sorry to have bothered you all and put you into such a tizzy. As ive said a certified mechanic friend of mine said this was possible, also i read three websites that showed how along with some videos. I have also since read some saying you are right and i was wrong. To be honest im tiring of the arguement. Thank you all for your input. Im simply trying to find out why my car wont crank instead of debating whether one website says this and another said that. Thank you all for your time and input.


You are the one perpetuating the discussion on being able to read codes using a paper clip. We are simply responding to your posts. If you want our help in diagnosing the problem with your car not starting, stick to that and stop posting how all your experts and sources are telling you something that is simply not true. We will stop picking on you if you stop telling us we are wrong about the paper clip.


We would be more than happy to help diagnose the no-start condition. That is what we are here for.

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Old 09-01-2016, 08:31 PM   #14
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I believe I have identified one of the issues here.

I believe it'* sites like this that perpetuate this misinformation:
How to Retrieve an OBD2 Code Without a Scan Gauge | eHow

The preamble:
Quote:
OBD2 trouble codes are part of a troubleshooting system that helps you track down the source of your engine'* problems. For example, if the engine'* computer recognizes a malfunction during operation, it isolates it, translates it into a code and saves it so you can access it. You retrieve it using one of the methods outlined here. Let'* say the code indicates a too-rich oxygen-to-fuel ratio. Look this up in a repair manual and you'll see this is usually liked to a faulty oxygen sensor. Replacing it solves the problem and the code resets.
This bit likely uses this reference listed:
OXYGEN SENSORS
I believe making such a blanket statement is downright ignorant, as it is many times not the issue, however I am not going to address this any further.

It'* these bits that are the fun ones:
Quote:
Things You'll Need
Jumper wire
Paper clip
Repair manual
Oh this should be good....

Quote:
Retrieve OBD2 Codes Using Your Ignition Key
Turn the ignition key "On" and "Off" without cranking the engine. How many times you do this depends on your particular vehicle. Most Chryslers require five times; other cars require three. End with the key in the "On" position. Start the sequence anew if you accidentally crank the car.
I assume this is using this reference, again, OBD 2 Chrysler: Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge computer fault codes

OBD 1 Chrysler has also been known to do the blinky light song and dance to flash codes as well after repeated key on/off.

They continue...
Quote:
Watch the "Check Engine" or "Service" light on the dash. It will be lit, and will begin to pulse. Each pulse represents a number. A pause separates one digit from the next in a two-digit code. For instance, Code 23 will go like this: pulse, pulse, pause, pulse, pulse, pulse.

Write down the codes as they flash through the "Check Engine" light. Each code has a meaning, directly related to a problem in the engine. Look up the codes in a repair manual.
Wait, they are now referencing codes being flashed out, citing 2 digit code numbers, which, again, OBD 1. This is getting confusing...

They continue:
Quote:
Other Options
Depress the odometer "Trip" and "Reset" buttons while turning the key "On." Release the buttons and watch the odometer display for the trouble codes to read out digitally.

Depress the odometer "Trip" and "Reset" buttons while simultaneously turning the ignition key "On" and "Off." End with the key in the "On" position. Release the odometer buttons and read the trouble codes from the digital odometer.
This procedure is also cited in the 'Chrysler' article, so I presume this is an alternate method to the key on/off procedure.

The final bit:
Quote:
Locate the test port under the dash where the OBD2 scanner plugs in. Use a piece of jumper wire or even an unbent paper clip to link ports "A" and "B," initiating the diagnostic sequence. Watch the "Check Engine" light for the codes to flash.
I choked at this point, and checked sources, so I could find out which terminals were being tagged "A" and "B".
The only remaining source is this: GM ? OBD/OBD2 Trouble Codes

The instructions for this site are as follows:
Quote:
GM Trouble Code Info

Accessing Trouble Codes


Turn ignition switch to OFF position
Locate Data Link Connector (DLC), see image below.
Jumper the A&B terminals(a paper clip or a jumper wire work ok)
Turn Ignition switch to ON position.
Count the flashes on the “CHECK ENGINE” or “SERVICE ENGINE” light.
FLASH, pause, FLASH, FLASH = code 12
NOTE: Some 94 & 95 models do not have the B terminal. In which case a scanner is required.
NOTE: Some 94 & 95 models that DO have the A & B terminals still require a scanner.
All vehicles after 96 are OBDII,and require a scanner to access them.
This is the diagram pictured as well:
Quote:
This diagram is a 12 pin GM ALDL connector, commonly used in OBD 1 applications.

The bridging of A & B terminals simply engages the 'Field Service Mode', one product of which happens to be the flashing out of any stored codes. My 1993 Park Avenue was equipped with this function, my 1994 Regal is NOT equipped with this function.

But for posterity'* sake, I feel it necessary to repeat the last line in these instructions:
Quote:
All vehicles after 96 are OBDII,and require a scanner to access them.
There is no way around it that we are aware of. You need an external device capable of reading OBD 2 codes.

And as mentioned by others, it is a VERY bad idea to be fishing around down there with a paperclip. There are 12 volt live lines, and terminals that do not react kindly to 12 volts being applied. If your 'certified mechanic friend" KNOWS that your car is in fact a 2004, and is instructing you to "go fish" with a paperclip, then you would likely be better off sourcing your information and vehicle repairs elsewhere.

Hopefully this post of many words helps clears things up. As was mentioned, we are here to help. Where are you located?
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Old 09-02-2016, 03:22 AM   #15
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Pretty sure he thinks we are giving him misinformation, and do not know what we are talking about, when all we were trying to do was be honest and truthful.
Nobody wants to find out they have a certified mechanic as a friend, and that they do not know the facts about scanning for codes on a car with an OBD2 port, so I get his frustration, or feeling of being attacked.
Hopefully they understand we can, and will help, as long as they believe us, and stop believing the misinformation they received already.
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:10 AM   #16
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I guess I can't blame him. The world (and the internet for that matter) is full of idiots. It'* unfortunate that they got to him before we could.
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Old 09-02-2016, 03:15 PM   #17
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Indeed!
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread1962 View Post
I just changed intake gaskets on my 2004 grand prix. When it failed to start and i didnt have a diagnostic reader i read how to jump the two terminals and read the codes that way. My engine light did not blink but my doorbell ringer beeped 5/6 times for an open door, then it beeped twice, twice. Does this indicate error code 22? (Throttle position sensor)
Make sure your MAP sensor is intact. When I did the LIM gaskets on my Buick I had damaged my MAP sensor. It would start but would not stay idle and then shut off. If I held the throttle open it would run but I knew something was not right. I swapped in an old MAP sensor that I had laying around and that solved it.
If you have a smartphone you should get a Bluetooth scanner from AMAZON. They are very cheap and work with a free app available from Google play store.
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:00 PM   #19
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As the guys have stated, your mechanic is indeed certifiable....

You can only read codes with a code reader or scan tool.....

For 12 bucks on Amazon, you can get:

OBD2,Hikeren MINI Bluetooth OBD2 OBDII Car Diagnostic Scan Tool /OBDii Code Reader Adapter Check Engine Light for Android and Windows System- Compatible with Torque Pro.......with a smartphone, tablet or laptop, you can communicate via Bluetooth, to get codes AND data, and actually plt data.......the upgraded Torque Pro App(better) is like 5 bucks from the Google Store....so for under 20 bucks, you can have a pretty sophisticated scan tool....

Even without a scan tool, have you done the basics? Checked for spark on all coils? Checked fuel pressure with a gage? Checked for injector pulse? Tried starting with the MAF disconnected? Checked the f/p regulator vac line for fuel? made sure the coolant sensor is connected....checked compression?

You will not find a better group of techs, than here, willing to help you if you follow their advice.....
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