Transmission Cooler Install (97-99)
08-15-2005, 02:45 PM
#1
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Transmission Cooler Install (97-99)
Hey, all. Bought a Hayden transmission cooler from Autozone on Friday for fluid change/cooler install at Thomas' (PDXGTP) house Saturday morning (we also were doing fluid change/trans cooler on his Montana).
Dropped the pan on the bonne, removed filter (oh no, I broke the neck
), pried out filter neck/fitting, cleaned up pan, gasket, trans.
Anywhoo, went to begin installation of the cooler and I came up with a bunch of questions :?
Long story short, we ran into a little problem on the Montana, it was getting hot out, and I wanted to do this right, so I decided to research the site some more before installing the cooler and instead just installed the new filter, buttoned up the pan, and changed the fluid (bonne is happy, again).
So, I search BC and I still have questions (damn, n00bs
)
Is there an advantage on whether or not the cooler is horizontal or vertical?
I was going to fab up some brackets rather than zip tieing to the radiator, is this better/worth the effort?
I was planning on mounting on the passenger side, where the 92-96 stock ones are mounted, does it matter which side? (The 97 transmission lines into the radiator are long, hard/shaped lines. The only "soft" tubing is on the driver'* side, low, just after they come out of the transmission.)
So, do I cut the "soft" line by the transmission and "plumb" all the way over to the passenger side............
or can I cut the hard line off near the top fitting on the radiator, plumb in the cooler, then flare the cut end of the original line to accept the return line off the cooler? or........
Sorry, guys, maybe I am over thinking this one. Any advice/ pics on mounting/plumbing is appreciated
Dropped the pan on the bonne, removed filter (oh no, I broke the neck
), pried out filter neck/fitting, cleaned up pan, gasket, trans.Anywhoo, went to begin installation of the cooler and I came up with a bunch of questions :?
Long story short, we ran into a little problem on the Montana, it was getting hot out, and I wanted to do this right, so I decided to research the site some more before installing the cooler and instead just installed the new filter, buttoned up the pan, and changed the fluid (bonne is happy, again).
So, I search BC and I still have questions (damn, n00bs
)Is there an advantage on whether or not the cooler is horizontal or vertical?
I was going to fab up some brackets rather than zip tieing to the radiator, is this better/worth the effort?
I was planning on mounting on the passenger side, where the 92-96 stock ones are mounted, does it matter which side? (The 97 transmission lines into the radiator are long, hard/shaped lines. The only "soft" tubing is on the driver'* side, low, just after they come out of the transmission.)
So, do I cut the "soft" line by the transmission and "plumb" all the way over to the passenger side............
or can I cut the hard line off near the top fitting on the radiator, plumb in the cooler, then flare the cut end of the original line to accept the return line off the cooler? or........
Sorry, guys, maybe I am over thinking this one. Any advice/ pics on mounting/plumbing is appreciated
08-15-2005, 02:57 PM
#2
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS
Expert Gearhead
Bob
Mount is just like the radiator sits in the car. Airflow is front to back.
The passenger side is usually favored because like you noticed, the tranny lines are already there. The supplied zip things vs the bracket...your choice. They make it so you don't have to fab anything.
Tubing, personally I'm aiming into doing this myself soon. My plan is to get an adaptor so I can bend the tranny line back a little, put the adaptor on and not cut. Otherwise I'd cut the line right near the radiator, not the soft tubing.
Mount is just like the radiator sits in the car. Airflow is front to back.
The passenger side is usually favored because like you noticed, the tranny lines are already there. The supplied zip things vs the bracket...your choice. They make it so you don't have to fab anything.
Tubing, personally I'm aiming into doing this myself soon. My plan is to get an adaptor so I can bend the tranny line back a little, put the adaptor on and not cut. Otherwise I'd cut the line right near the radiator, not the soft tubing.
08-15-2005, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BillBoost37
Bob
Mount is just like the radiator sits in the car. Airflow is front to back.
Mount is just like the radiator sits in the car. Airflow is front to back.
It took me a minute to figure out what you were saying. I know the cooler airflow is front to back LMAO. What I was saying is that the cooler is 10X15, and is there an advantage to haveing the long (15") side running up and down or side to side.As you have probably already seen on your car, the top hard line goes 90* into the radiator. Bending a little out of the way sounds good! If it breaks/splits, I can always cut. I just really didn't want to cut the soft lines and run new lines/tubing all the way over to the passenger side. (I really don't want to "block"/pre-heat the airstream on the drivers side for engine coolant!)
More advice/pics! Keep 'em comin' gang! ttt
BTW, Bill, I am working on that little "project" you asked for
08-15-2005, 03:53 PM
#4
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS
Expert Gearhead
Bob...great to hear on the "project".
I'd say probably shorter in height. I think we get more air across the grill. And that'* about 10inches.
LMAO I read that part again and it'* funny. When you said which way I was thinking..."What the heck could be be thinking" Then reading what I wrote.. it made sense to me at the moment.
EDIT: on second thought...a bracket might be better..that way you have space between the condensor and tranny cooler. More space..more cooling for the condensor.
I'd say probably shorter in height. I think we get more air across the grill. And that'* about 10inches.
LMAO I read that part again and it'* funny. When you said which way I was thinking..."What the heck could be be thinking" Then reading what I wrote.. it made sense to me at the moment.
EDIT: on second thought...a bracket might be better..that way you have space between the condensor and tranny cooler. More space..more cooling for the condensor.
08-15-2005, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BillBoost37
EDIT: on second thought...a bracket might be better..that way you have space between the condensor and tranny cooler. More space..more cooling for the condensor.
Plus, there are holes already in the rad support that will work fine.So, looking at the front of the car, at the radiator, where is the internal trans cooler? Passenger side, I assume? Does it run the whole hieght of the radiator?
Keep the ideas coming. (Bill, apparently, you and I are the only ones that care!)
08-15-2005, 07:45 PM
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On the 4T60-E 1992-1996 There were certain models that had either a Toe Package or HD cooling... Most all of the SC'd applications had the HD cooling which included the Tranny cooler...
For my 95 with the 4T60-E I went back and ordered new lines... The one line I ordered was for an H body with the AUX tranny cooler, I also ordered a U bend pipe for the top port of the internal tranny cooler... This is how its plumbed from the factory...
Now here goes the strange part, The 4T65-E'* came out of the factory with no cooler... Doesn't matter what model it is, the 65-E has no cooler, with the exception of the internal radiator cooler.... What I have been wondering for some time is weather or not the fitting size on the trans or Radiator has changed between the 4T60-E and or the 4T65-E...
I used the same U bend, and Aux tranny cooler line on both of my Bonnevilles.... THM440-T4(4T60) and the 4T60-E...
If memory serves one cooler is Imperial and the other is Hayden... I think these are made by the same company... I used the RV + 7000lb cooler I think... The cooler on my 91 is slightly smaller( and I mean slightly )...
I should have fabed up some brackets for my coolers to make it look better.... But from what I have determined with a scantool on the 95, is that I have easily knocked off 50-60F from the operating temps.... I run between 160-180F Tranny temps as opposed to the 230F I was seeing...
From what we have been told in the past, the 65-E does not need a cooler as they don't fail from overheating... I can believe that they do not overheat to badly, But I also know heat is the #1 enemy of an automatic trans....
Myself and Willwren have chatted in the past about diffrent thoughts on the diffrent transmissions out there.... My thoughts are as follows, And I'm sure others have differing thoughts on the matter...
Every auto trans will develop heat, thats just the nature of its design.... At the same time I am not 100% sure that I believe that a 4T45-E or 4T65-E will not or is not supposed to overheat... I have seen a few with low miles that had some nasty looking fluid... Overheated, but not burned...
Most of the 45-e'* and 65'* will apply the converter clutch at a lower speed allowing for a certain amount of slip, which improves the TCC apply and the ability to apply the clutch at lower speeds to help fuel economy.... At the same time I feel that this slip in its self creates more heat, the converter clutch is supposedly designed to handle the light amount of slip without burning clutch up...
With that said, I have yet to see a 4T60-E burn up... I have seen a few with some badly overheated fluid, but not black by any means... Most just wear out with high milage...
The THM440-T4 had a real problem with overheating, and just about every one I have seen suffered a heat related failure, they just get too hot... And here in FL, we know they will fail sooner or later without an added cooler...
My friend has a Park Ave with 147,000 on it, 4T60-E and it still pulls great and shifts good.. Never had an external cooler on it... Just a few of my thoughts...
If the fittings are the same between the 65-E and 60-E, both the trans and the radiator, then I would reccomend that you get the lines for a 93-94-95 SSEi, again thats if the fittings are the same... This will make the install a snapp, and it will look pretty much factory... I like clean installs...
Best wishes on the install... I think I have gone on toooo long....LMAO
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For my 95 with the 4T60-E I went back and ordered new lines... The one line I ordered was for an H body with the AUX tranny cooler, I also ordered a U bend pipe for the top port of the internal tranny cooler... This is how its plumbed from the factory...
Now here goes the strange part, The 4T65-E'* came out of the factory with no cooler... Doesn't matter what model it is, the 65-E has no cooler, with the exception of the internal radiator cooler.... What I have been wondering for some time is weather or not the fitting size on the trans or Radiator has changed between the 4T60-E and or the 4T65-E...
I used the same U bend, and Aux tranny cooler line on both of my Bonnevilles.... THM440-T4(4T60) and the 4T60-E...
If memory serves one cooler is Imperial and the other is Hayden... I think these are made by the same company... I used the RV + 7000lb cooler I think... The cooler on my 91 is slightly smaller( and I mean slightly )...
I should have fabed up some brackets for my coolers to make it look better.... But from what I have determined with a scantool on the 95, is that I have easily knocked off 50-60F from the operating temps.... I run between 160-180F Tranny temps as opposed to the 230F I was seeing...
From what we have been told in the past, the 65-E does not need a cooler as they don't fail from overheating... I can believe that they do not overheat to badly, But I also know heat is the #1 enemy of an automatic trans....
Myself and Willwren have chatted in the past about diffrent thoughts on the diffrent transmissions out there.... My thoughts are as follows, And I'm sure others have differing thoughts on the matter...
Every auto trans will develop heat, thats just the nature of its design.... At the same time I am not 100% sure that I believe that a 4T45-E or 4T65-E will not or is not supposed to overheat... I have seen a few with low miles that had some nasty looking fluid... Overheated, but not burned...
Most of the 45-e'* and 65'* will apply the converter clutch at a lower speed allowing for a certain amount of slip, which improves the TCC apply and the ability to apply the clutch at lower speeds to help fuel economy.... At the same time I feel that this slip in its self creates more heat, the converter clutch is supposedly designed to handle the light amount of slip without burning clutch up...
With that said, I have yet to see a 4T60-E burn up... I have seen a few with some badly overheated fluid, but not black by any means... Most just wear out with high milage...
The THM440-T4 had a real problem with overheating, and just about every one I have seen suffered a heat related failure, they just get too hot... And here in FL, we know they will fail sooner or later without an added cooler...
My friend has a Park Ave with 147,000 on it, 4T60-E and it still pulls great and shifts good.. Never had an external cooler on it... Just a few of my thoughts...
If the fittings are the same between the 65-E and 60-E, both the trans and the radiator, then I would reccomend that you get the lines for a 93-94-95 SSEi, again thats if the fittings are the same... This will make the install a snapp, and it will look pretty much factory... I like clean installs...
Best wishes on the install... I think I have gone on toooo long....LMAO
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08-15-2005, 08:22 PM
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Thanks for the info, and NO you did not go on too long.
FWIW, The fittings that came with my Hayden match up to the stock fittings on the 97.
I did another search using "trans AND cooler" instead of "transmission AND cooler" :? and came up with a few more very useful hits, including your install and pics showing the black u-tube and silver h-body line. I like that. I'll go and get them from my local pontiac dealer and see if they match up threadwise. If so, I am good to go.
I am also going to hook up my Actron 9145 and see if can read trans temp (not sure it can) so I can see what temps I am currently running. Supposed to be 105* this week.
Thanks again, the second search I did helped alot. I think i know what I am doing now. The factory U will help tremendously!
FWIW, The fittings that came with my Hayden match up to the stock fittings on the 97.
I did another search using "trans AND cooler"
instead of "transmission AND cooler" :? and came up with a few more very useful hits, including your install and pics showing the black u-tube and silver h-body line. I like that. I'll go and get them from my local pontiac dealer and see if they match up threadwise. If so, I am good to go.I am also going to hook up my Actron 9145 and see if can read trans temp (not sure it can) so I can see what temps I am currently running. Supposed to be 105* this week.
Thanks again, the second search I did helped alot. I think i know what I am doing now. The factory U will help tremendously!
08-15-2005, 08:29 PM
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As long as I was a help.... If there is anything else you need... Let us know..
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08-15-2005, 09:05 PM
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I don't have much to add. Don got that one pretty good. Your preference on orientation and position. I need to do some upgrades to mine soon too (both). Your scantool should read trans temp. OBD2 is good for something after all, eh Bob?
08-15-2005, 11:01 PM
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Thanks, Bill. Yeah, I searched some more after reading Don'* advice and the factory line/u-tube would help alot! Since there is no factory cooler like the 92-96, BB and I have a little more thinkin' to do and thinkin' makes my head hurt, lately. OBDII/Actron GOOD. High trans temps BAD. I'll have the digi camera back soon, so.......yes, I know it is hard to believe, but I, Echo SSEI, will be posting pics and I should have done some investigative research while i had the chance in Oregon with everybody elses car.
BTW, what "upgrades" could you possibly do!
and thinkin' makes my head hurt, lately. OBDII/Actron GOOD. High trans temps BAD. I'll have the digi camera back soon, so.......yes, I know it is hard to believe, but I, Echo SSEI, will be posting pics and I should have done some investigative research while i had the chance in Oregon with everybody elses car.BTW, what "upgrades" could you possibly do!