I'm going to quietly insert my 0.02 cents here.

Keep this thread clean gentlemen. Regardless of 304 hp or not, I don't care if anyone moded to 500 hp....and its not really going to affect anyones life at the end of the day. Don't make us lock this.

If you have something important and revlevant to add, please do. Name calling, nit picking...its not going to fly. Now I don't really know a thing about super modding an engine, so I want to find out what can be done.

Thanks guys...

I just want to see straight truth, and backing yourself into a corner doesn't help. Not trying to start anything but i saw lots of bad info and i wanna know what'* really up, and i know i'm not alone. YOU WANT THE TRUTH YOU WANT THE TRUTH!!?!? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

I am going to try to keep this as clean as possible, while still figuring out what is ACTUALLY going on. If this guy is making 304 to the wheels, I want to know how and what he did.


Yeah, I was going to try and not say much about that mod list of his. I am going to try to include anything from his mod list that would make any power, and list them below so we don't all have to decifer through the spark plugs and batteries and such.

Edelbrock intake (didn't know they made one, but it COULD give a few ponies)
Hypertech thermo-master chip (whatever that is, if it is a computer I can see it making a few horsepower)
Eagle crank (maybe if it is lightweight, or has an underdrive pulley on it)
crane cam (must've had it custom made, would have to see lift specs to know if it did any good or not)
crane cam rockers (assuming they are higher ratio, if not give this a 0hp gain)
milodon vavles (assuming they are larger than stock)
march pulleys (assuming they are lightweight, underdrive, or both)

OK, seeing those add up the maximum horsepower you think they could give and add the final number to 170, and it doesn't come anywhere close to 304 wheel hp (360-380 crank hp).

OK, this is very insulting to me and many others that work with these engines, so let me reply to you in the nicest way I can. INTENSE (intense-racing.com) is a company that spends all their time developing and testing internal engine componets for Series II 3800'* which are better and more advanced than Series I 3800'*. They have come up with the best cam/head/piston/lifter setup that is basically possible for both the N/A L36 and the Supercharged L67. They have a few of their own L67'* that they use for testing and to show what their products can do, and they have an L36 that is completely built with basically every internal and external modification available for the engine that would do any good, and they have a custom dyno tuned PCM so it can make the most horsepower available with these parts, etc.. Basically, they have built the perfect N/A Pushrod 3800. The car with this engine in it ran a best time of 13.909 in the 1/4 mile, and only pulls something like 250 or 260hp at the wheels. This company has had many years of research and development to build the parts that they put in the engine, and you can't really do much else to the engine to get faster except put nitrous, a blower, or a turbo on it. It is this that makes it very hard for me to believe that your Series I 3800, which is a lower horsepower engine, after just a few custom made parts from an inexperienced person that doesn't have the experience to know what would help the engine and what wouldn't, is making 304 wheel horsepower. This is why I would like for you to prove to me that the car is making that kind of power. That is all I ask. I am not saying you are a liar, I am not saying it is impossible, I just want some proof, because that horsepower number is WAY higher than anybody else has ever achieved. So please, just do what I ask and provide some proof of this 304 wheel horsepower and everyone will leave you alone. Until you do, nobody is going to believe you, because as I have already said, nobody has ever acheived that kind of power out of one of these engines, so because of that, it is natural for everyone to not believe some guy that they have never heard of before when he says that he is making that kind of power.

And about members adding "cheap mods" and only gaining 75hp, I will have you know that we have $7000 into the engine on our GTP, all of which are bolt ons, except for the high ratio rocker arms, and 85lb. valvesprings. The car has ~180hp more than it did stock. So, what I want to know from you is, how is $7000 worth of mods cheap, and 180 additional horsepower not good. If you could clear this up for me, that would be great.

regarding the doc eldbrock does do custom work for the right price! (rods, plugs, wires, regulator, injectors) they have to do something light weight does add hp? better flow injectors? more control over the fuel? better spark? wires?[/quote]

light weight doesnt but it less weight to move less friction friction robs hp

OK, if your plugs are the correct plugs for the car, and the wires are in decent shape you aren't going to get any horsepower there. Bigger injectors just give you enough fuel to be able to handle more horsepower, they don't give you more power. Lightweight rods may help, but they would have to be pretty light to make a noticable difference in horsepower. As far as the regulator I am assuming it is a fuel pressure regulator, as the mod list doesn't say what kind of regulator it is, but all that does is control how much fuel pressure you are running, which doesn't give you more power, it allows you to adjust the fuel if the car is running to rich or lean, but if it using a computer to control the fuel anyways (which it is), the computer will just adjust any tuning you do back to stock, so basically it is useless. I can not see any of these mods making a noticable difference in power.

This thread will go no further until (or if) Mark_M backs up these claims with a dyno sheet or other proof. Until that time, there will be no further bashing from either side of this argument.

Consider this thread under 'virtual lock' as far as bitching goes. This hasn't gone TOO far yet, but it'* close. Nobody will get ANYWHERE with this without PROOF. Without proof, it'll just bitch back and forth for a month.

Im cunfused ok i know that this guy is a big bulls*iter but why do you add such thing to a car if it doesnt make any hp so your saying people basic waste money! dunno

Gold stars are swarming.

All those gold stars seem to work like a mute button...