Lets talk about my KR (update 11-28)
#61
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I'm suspecting your IPW numbers from the scantool. IIRC, you're using the CP9110? It has some wierd flukes. I can compare IPW'* on mine later today and see if it reports correctly.
#62
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Yea, that is what i am using.
Yea, if you dont mind, see how yours reads. I have been told before that it does not read them 100% accurate and they are actually good til 25 ipws but i am unsure.
Yea, if you dont mind, see how yours reads. I have been told before that it does not read them 100% accurate and they are actually good til 25 ipws but i am unsure.
#63
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if you whant to compare a few of mine
IPW 18 to 19 max
o2 905 to 920
maf frequency 8970 max
ign advance 27 max at WOT
LTFT +16.4 at WOT
IPW 18 to 19 max
o2 905 to 920
maf frequency 8970 max
ign advance 27 max at WOT
LTFT +16.4 at WOT
#64
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I am just waiting for Ryan to get back a hold of me. I know looking at my scans my car is looking for more fuel. Not sure if it is tuning, injectors, pump, ect. But it seems to be looking for fuel.
I think deep down Ryan beleives it is false knock. On the last email he wrote, if this doesnt cure the kr then i believe it is a bad knock sensor or a mechanical noise. I mean it may be but i dunno. I think the car is crying for fuel. And O2'* being that low, i can see why.
I think deep down Ryan beleives it is false knock. On the last email he wrote, if this doesnt cure the kr then i believe it is a bad knock sensor or a mechanical noise. I mean it may be but i dunno. I think the car is crying for fuel. And O2'* being that low, i can see why.
#65
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Originally Posted by willwren
There'* NO WAY you are outflowing stock injectors.
Secondly, the Series 2 SC injectors' flow rate of 36lb/hr is based on a maximum fuel pressure of 60psi. If you scale this back to the L36'* 48psi, then the actual flow rate of these injectors on a L36 system is only 32lb/hr. The computer can be easily tuned for this.
Check your plugs again too. You should be reading them on a regular basis.
Having said that the spark plugs can still tell you a lot. They can tell you if they are the correct temperature range for the engine or if there is detonation occurring. But I would not rely solely on their appearance to determine if the engine is getting enough fuel at WOT.
Now that I have explained all that, here is what I think is going on with TJ'* car. There is absolutely NO reason why he should be getting any detonation on a free rev of the engine. There is no load on the engine so there shouldn't be enough heat in the combustion chamber to create detonation. It is FAR MORE LIKELY that he has a mechanical noise in the engine that is causing his KR issue. In this latest chip I did for him I reduced the ignition timing in some places by 5 degrees which doesn't seem to have helped his KR issue at all. So I am inclined to believe the root cause of all this KR is due to a mechanical noise or other issue that isn't true detonation.
Now I will admit the latest fuel numbers don't look all that great either. Should see narrow band O2 voltage readings in the 800'* at WOT; not 700'* or 600'*. The IPW'* of 22ms he is getting indicates to me his injectors are maxxed out for this application, and he is in need of bigger injectors. Could the lean AFR cause detonation? Yes. But this still doesn't explain the KR he is getting on a free rev; even with lean AFR it takes a lot to get an engine to detonate on a free rev with no load on it.
First thing TJ needs to do is check fuel pressure at WOT. It should hold at his maximum 48psi during the entire WOT run and should not drop off. If it does drop off, this could indicate a restriction in the fuel system or a problem with the pump not being able to keep up with the flow demands @ pressure that is required of it. If, in-fact his fuel pressure is steady during WOT operation, then I think it'* safe to say he needs bigger injectors. Are Series 2 L67 injectors a little excessive? Maybe, but if he can get them for a good price then we can tune the computer to work with them.
I suggest we get the fuel hammered out first and then look into the KR issue. As I mentioned before, a lean AFR at WOT can lead to detonation; and we already know we are in need of more fuel right now. Once that problem is solved, then we can look into this KR issue more. But I still fear it is false KR and not actual detonation.
-ryan
#66
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Correct my numbers if I goof something here. I know quite a bit, but I'm certainly not an expert in this:
The OEM Bosch injectors in TJ'* car are rated at 21lb @43.5psi (3bar). The L36 actually has a 3.5bar regulator, which increases the flow to 22.6lb/hr. BSFC numbers should be higher for that rating.
L36'* are notoriously under-rated at 205hp from the factory, so how can that OEM injector only support 200? Granted, TJ has a cam in that car (I keep thinking ER rockers, but that'* the other), so the question is do other L36'* running the ZZP GT1 cam have this issue? If they do, isn't the S2 L67 injector just a bit on the monstrous side, and wouldn't an injector like the 29lb S1 L67 be a better choice? Particularly at 3.5bar fuel pressure?
If I'm not mistaken, the L36 and S2 L67 both run at 3.5bar (50.7psi). But the Bosch injector rating is based on 3bar (43.5psi).
The OEM Bosch injectors in TJ'* car are rated at 21lb @43.5psi (3bar). The L36 actually has a 3.5bar regulator, which increases the flow to 22.6lb/hr. BSFC numbers should be higher for that rating.
L36'* are notoriously under-rated at 205hp from the factory, so how can that OEM injector only support 200? Granted, TJ has a cam in that car (I keep thinking ER rockers, but that'* the other), so the question is do other L36'* running the ZZP GT1 cam have this issue? If they do, isn't the S2 L67 injector just a bit on the monstrous side, and wouldn't an injector like the 29lb S1 L67 be a better choice? Particularly at 3.5bar fuel pressure?
If I'm not mistaken, the L36 and S2 L67 both run at 3.5bar (50.7psi). But the Bosch injector rating is based on 3bar (43.5psi).
#67
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so the question is do other L36'* running the ZZP GT1 cam have this issue?
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:31 am Post subject:
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After I did a camswap I got swamped with 16-18 degrees of KR on my n/a RWD platform
So n/a cars are very apt to get KR, and often times the autos will get it a lot worse than the manuals (atleast that is usually the problem on f-bodies) after engine work.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:31 am Post subject:
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After I did a camswap I got swamped with 16-18 degrees of KR on my n/a RWD platform
So n/a cars are very apt to get KR, and often times the autos will get it a lot worse than the manuals (atleast that is usually the problem on f-bodies) after engine work.
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#68
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Originally Posted by willwren
Correct my numbers if I goof something here. I know quite a bit, but I'm certainly not an expert in this:
The OEM Bosch injectors in TJ'* car are rated at 21lb @43.5psi (3bar). The L36 actually has a 3.5bar regulator, which increases the flow to 22.6lb/hr. BSFC numbers should be higher for that rating.
The OEM Bosch injectors in TJ'* car are rated at 21lb @43.5psi (3bar). The L36 actually has a 3.5bar regulator, which increases the flow to 22.6lb/hr. BSFC numbers should be higher for that rating.
22.6lb injectors will support up to 217hp at a 80% duty cycle. Like I said before, you can drive the injectors at a higher duty cycle, but the accepted industry standard maximum recommended duty cycle is only 80%. Also, if your engine is more effecient than the "industry standard" 0.50 BSFC rating, then the engine will be able to make more power with less fuel. The numbers I gave you are based on calculations using industry standard values for duty cycle and BSFC. Actual conditions you experience may vary from this. But this is what the rest of the industry uses so that'* what I use. You can read a complete write-up on this subject here: http://www.precisionturbo.net/techinfotext.php?aid=22
L36'* are notoriously under-rated at 205hp from the factory, so how can that OEM injector only support 200? Granted, TJ has a cam in that car (I keep thinking ER rockers, but that'* the other), so the question is do other L36'* running the ZZP GT1 cam have this issue? If they do, isn't the S2 L67 injector just a bit on the monstrous side, and wouldn't an injector like the 29lb S1 L67 be a better choice? Particularly at 3.5bar fuel pressure?
Having said that would a S1 SC injector be a better choice? Sure; but how easy is it going to be for TJ to find a good used set that doesn't have a million miles on them? You can find S2 SC injectors all over the place that don't have a ton of miles on them for cheap. And as I mentioned earlier, these don't flow all that much more than the S1 SC injectors. As long as he doesn't go with too big of injectors I should be able to tune the computer to work fine with them.
#69
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Every L36 Regulator I have seen was 3.5 Bar.. That would be for my factory motor... It was 3.5 Bar, The replacement was 3.5 Bar... The replacement engine I used had a 3.5 bar and the extra fuel rail I have is a 3.5 Bar... 3.0 Bar would be in the area of 42-43 Psi and the L27 would fall into that category as it runs 41-47 Psi... 3.5 would fall to the L36 as it runs 48-55 Psi..
I would assume that my LN3 would be 2.8 as it runs 37-41 Psi
Being that you have removed the timing and there was no change... I as well would like to see TJ with a little more fuel... But I am almost thinking he may have some internal issues... Remains to be seen..
TJ How is your fuel pressure holding up?
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I would assume that my LN3 would be 2.8 as it runs 37-41 Psi
Being that you have removed the timing and there was no change... I as well would like to see TJ with a little more fuel... But I am almost thinking he may have some internal issues... Remains to be seen..
TJ How is your fuel pressure holding up?
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#70
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Havent had a chance to get on a fuel pressure gauge but hopefully sometime this week.
As for the injectors, i got low milage S2 L67 injectors for an awesome price (because we have great members). The chip is going out for tuning for them this week and should be back soon enough and i will put them in. It cant hurt.
Lets hope it isnt something internal causing this. I am also going to switch out the knock sensors with the other ones i have. I figure might as well try it. Any ideas on things that maybe causing internal noise?
As for the injectors, i got low milage S2 L67 injectors for an awesome price (because we have great members). The chip is going out for tuning for them this week and should be back soon enough and i will put them in. It cant hurt.
Lets hope it isnt something internal causing this. I am also going to switch out the knock sensors with the other ones i have. I figure might as well try it. Any ideas on things that maybe causing internal noise?