Not what you might expect, but an interesting vid anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

(let this be a DISCUSSION, not a political debate)

I dislike people who talk with their hands....

Hey!

<Geoff

We are being invaded.

I'm not sure this can be anything but a political discussion. Sigh...

Edit: I am saying this because this guy is adamantly anti-immigration and bends numbers and facts to fit his opinions. I can throw a billion numbers at anything I like. This isn't just a factual "Oh, look what'* happening." It'* incredibly biased propaganda using shock tactics and I hope this thread gets locked.

This is the point where you post your numbers and sources using factual information and non-emotional discussion methods.

(let me clarify.....I'm the least biased, bigoted, racist person you will ever find on this Forum, I have zero tolerance for any kind of racial, sexual, or religious discrimination. My issue is with ILLEGAL immigration, and the financial burden it puts on society)

The point is that the numbers game is a bunch of bullshit. Correlation does not prove causation. He pretends that it does. I'm not starting a bunch of emotional argument, although we do have to decide our stance ideologically on immigration. I'm not saying illegal immigrants have rights to anything, and I'm sure you (willwren) and I agree on a lot of points about illegal immigrants. What I'm saying is that there is such a significant amount of uncertainty regarding illegal immigrants that charts and graphs of the effect is all speculation. What bugs me is that he makes conclusions of what will happen if we keep letting legal immigrants in, without any proof that these things will happen. This is a biased report, in fact, it'* the definition of biased. He doesn't go, "He chose a study that supported his findings, and used it to conclude something. He didn't test his hypothesis or use any evidence to support it besides that these numbers mean this will happen. A million people a year means our beaches will be unusable.

I do believe something needs to be changed, but people need to question what they see. They need to look at all the numbers, not what one study shows. They need to consider that our economy isn't hurting only because of immigrants, or even immigration at all. You let the government distract you with immigration talk while the same congress person is allowing more outsourcing and giving businesses that use cheap overseas labor breaks on taxes. I'm not trying to detract from immigration, but it'* not the end-all of our economy, and it'* not the source of our woes.

I digress, but my point is that his numbers may be shocking and appalling, but his speech is a bunch of bull**** because he uses it to draw conclusions about it'* affects on our economy and government. The first thing you learn in statistics is that correlation does not prove causation, and he has obviously forgotten this. If you would really like me to find factual evidence supporting my claims, I can. But I'd like you to do the same. (This YouTube video is the equivalent of me grabbing a clip from a Michael Moore film and showing it to you as a response).

My opinion: He is saying cutting immigration is the only solution, but I don't believe that'* true. We need to regulate immigration in order to keep our economy stable. Immigration is linked with several other things. Right now, America imports products from third world countries that use cheap labor. That is probably our biggest impact on third world countries, which is creating cheap labor jobs for production of American goods. It may not be something to be proud of, but it'* something. When we allow poor immigrants in, yet import product made elsewhere, we are increasing the workforce and decreasing the workload. That is just my speculation. More population means more burden on the government and social services, but more jobs means more taxes and income for the government.

Wow I never knew that the immigration this country took in only came from 3rd world countries!

Damn British, Japanese, Australians, and specially those German and Irish! Let'* not forget those damn Immigrant Canadians, that sneek down to the real America to take advantage of our exceptional corporate health insurance!

Too many third world countries in the world!

We should just build a wall around us... Now who can we get to build it cheaply and with no benefits...

This cant be anything but Political... but it doesnt have to be a debate. I do have to say WOW those numbers look kinda scary...

On the other hand, I Fully support leting people come on Work permits then GO HOME after their work is done ( Most of the Mexicans who work the feilds in Cali Go home after season anyways) I wonder how well that would work on a grand scale of the US.