I too am angry. But at more than just him. Dont get me wrong about my next statement. And it isn't an indication that my Allegiance and Loyalty to my country is in any way deficient. I can understand Hassan. I can understand his mindset given his background. As wrong as it is towards us, and how hurtful it is. I can understand it. I dont understand how the Army can ignore the red flags waving in their face and allow people with profiles such as his to remain on duty, and do even more to provoke him
to snap. Especially high ranking professionals assigned to evaluate and treat/assist our troops with PTDS. If I had a son shot dead because of the circumstances allowed, I would be devasted all the further.

Again, my heart. Prayers, and feelings pour out to these brave people and their families. They all deserve an explanation and the Country needs to know this wont be shoved under a rug and allowed again. It has become so difficult to defend from terrorists on the outside without letting standard operating procedures allowing a tragedy like this to unfold inside our own ranks.

Let'* keep the thread to discussion of the events and civil. As I mention earlier. I dont want it to grow into a lynching mob mentality here. Even though I personally would like to tie the noose myself, I dont want this to spill into something I have to close.

I can understand his veiws also but for christ'* sake go kill yourself not others cause your unhappy about something exspecially when you volunteered for the army no one drafted you azz into it!

However, yes the government does have quite a bit of explaining to do! there idea of a watch list is just that a "watch list" they did not act on their information and let it get to this point he should have never been an officer let alone a soldier! why they let him in is beyond me. there are too many open ends on this whole situation that need answers more so for the grieving families and the wounded. This like 9-11 never should of happened but because the U.*. is a talk about things first react after set of procedures that is why all of this has happened and the only explanation is complacency!!! nothing more that he we are a bunch of retards that like to think that it'* never going to happen and exspecially not here ya right how many times have we fallen under that and oh look something major happens

let me just state here that i am not anti american i love my country but something has to be done with our policies and procedures i served my country proudly and expect eveyone else who volunteers to do the same or dont bother going in!

And that'* the key to my frustration and hopes this incident sparks some gut checks about how they do business. But your right in having your assumptions here Sawgunner. The 1000'* that died in 9-11 are a good indicator of the mentality. Defuse. deflect, and redirect. Lt. Col. Oliver North, a man whose rank didn't do justice to his involvement and knowledge warned us about Osama over a decade before that happened.

I am the same, and proudly American. But when we see ourselves shoot ourselves in the foot, we need to be able to admit it, learn from it, and make ourselves stronger and wiser. I demand it here in the Forum, in my own life, and I dont hold our Leaders to any less an integrity level. I dont feel being loyal and patriotic involves being blind sheep.

Here is an example of the stupid polices and rules we were supposed to follow while over seas in iraq on patrols.
R.O.E. (rules of engagement)
1.) If Attacked you may only answer those attacks with equal of less force i.e. if they throw rocks at you , you may only throw rocks back. if they physically assault you i.e. punch, kick you may only return such force.
2.) if they raise a weapon at you you may not raise your weapon in return nor fire til fired upon.
3.) if attacked by an i.e.d. stop vehicles and set up a perimiter around your position and wait for assitance from other units to neutrilize threats

tell me how stupid this crap is please if someone raises an ak to you and is aiming i think we all know what is coming next.

I see and undersand what yur saying. And this is and has always been a problem when we try to take things like war and disengage reality and start calling them "police actions" . Our Army is not a police force, it isn't trained to be one. And most certainly shouldn't be deployed into a theater of war and expected to act like one. How is it sup[posed to work, to make war, then say,.... OK, war over, now we police. How can one side say this to appease what they feel is public and world view while the other side hasn't given up and only intensifies.

Reality is, it is still a war. Either fight it, or remove yourself from it. It is black and white. And trying to paint it gray only causes grief, and further casualties to both our men and civil populations we say we went in to protect.

As more information becomes available on this event, I am of the opinion that the US war machine has failed on one of it'* primary responsibilities - protect the troops. That responsibility should be no different than when our troops are in a war zone or at home on US soil. There'* were so many red flags flying about Major Nadil Malik Hasan that it look like a Russian parade....Why did nobody notice and take action?