Do you hate America?
07-12-2004, 10:59 AM
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*runs and hides with Christine*
Bah! Another political discussion...anyways, my two cents. First I really, really, really, wish I could find the list of things America has done for Canada which was forwarded around when 9-11 occured and it was obvious we weren't getting much help. It was pretty enlightening to see what a good neighbor the US has been. But, to be fair, no, I don't think I country should have to go to war just because someone has been there for them in the past, but, you know, not hating us would be nice too.
Okay, that was one cent, here goes number two...Jim brought up WW2, which I think is interesting (and I'm not picking on you, but you brought it up). It seems to me we are in a lose-lose situation. I can understand the actions of our country being under close watch, and I don't believe we should go unchecked but we can't always be in agreement with the world stage, that shouldn't be expected. When one critcizes us for not going to war until we are personally attacked at Pearl Harbor, then criticizes us again for going to war when we are personally attacked on 9-11, I'm a little confused. I understand the fact that we can't deal in absolutes, but aren't we basicly talking about the same thing? In both cases, there were major issues in other parts of the world, and when those people brought it to us, we delt with it. Don't you think that if we were to have joined WW2 before Pearl Harbor, we would have been hearing the same things that we're hearing now. It seems to me, in the eyes of some, we can't win. --Jeanie
Bah! Another political discussion...anyways, my two cents. First I really, really, really, wish I could find the list of things America has done for Canada which was forwarded around when 9-11 occured and it was obvious we weren't getting much help. It was pretty enlightening to see what a good neighbor the US has been. But, to be fair, no, I don't think I country should have to go to war just because someone has been there for them in the past, but, you know, not hating us would be nice too.
Okay, that was one cent, here goes number two...Jim brought up WW2, which I think is interesting (and I'm not picking on you, but you brought it up). It seems to me we are in a lose-lose situation. I can understand the actions of our country being under close watch, and I don't believe we should go unchecked but we can't always be in agreement with the world stage, that shouldn't be expected. When one critcizes us for not going to war until we are personally attacked at Pearl Harbor, then criticizes us again for going to war when we are personally attacked on 9-11, I'm a little confused. I understand the fact that we can't deal in absolutes, but aren't we basicly talking about the same thing? In both cases, there were major issues in other parts of the world, and when those people brought it to us, we delt with it. Don't you think that if we were to have joined WW2 before Pearl Harbor, we would have been hearing the same things that we're hearing now. It seems to me, in the eyes of some, we can't win. --Jeanie
07-12-2004, 02:04 PM
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This was not supposed to be a political debate, but just stating the facts. 
Jeannie, great point.
Thats exactly the type of comment that spreads hate and ignorance. Where did you get that information from? From real americans or your media and TV? Do you not think we would be there for you in every way if you were ever hostilly threatened by another country? you wouldnt know what that would be like and never will though b/c were right here next to you.
I admit the Bush admistrations PR sucks big time but their intentions remain true to the form of real american courage and will to continue to protect the FREE WORLD. This adminstration has only been here 4 years, how quickly people forget the other 234 years.
C,mon now, do you really think we want to have 100,000 service men in *. Korea for 50 years? Are we being greedy? or are we bullying someone? no, we are protecting * Korea and taiwain etc... b/c the asked us to protect them. Its our duty as being the only freeworld superpower left. Do you think America forces themselves upon the innocent country or poeple thats about to get slaughtered? Whenever any country is in danger by another country who do they call? thats right the US. what you dont hear b/c your media wont report it is how eternally thankful and grateful all those countries areto us b/c we are there for them. A misunderstanding by foreigners about Americans is our passion for freedom is so strong that we are willing to risk our lives for total strangers so they can taste freedom in thier lives and the lives of thier children but the people in other free countries cant fathom risking thier life for another country, so then we're accused of having alterior motives.
My Grandfather was fortunate enough to live through World war I where he saw almost everyone of his friends die in his squad. Why were we there? b/c we were asked to help by the allies. or maybe people think were were just there to bully the Germans? My grandfather was crippled and nearly deaf from saving Frances ***, and even though we gave a HUGE sacrifice of 100 of thousands of American servicemens lives to save some strangers in a strange land, my grandfather was damn proud of his country and the role he played to liberate france. thats how Americans feel. I am actually grateful hes not around now to see the France of today, it would break his heart. My father was in the Navy in the Korean 'war' from 50-53, risking his life for 3 years on a ship to keep really bad people from killing millions of innocent people. Does anyone that wasnt affected by this war give a Rats A$$? most likely not.
Do you really think we, the american people, want to have 120,000+ of our dearly beloved in Iraq? If the UN had any backbone, they would have removed him from government when he murdered 100,000s of thousands of his own people like when they backed removing Milosevic from the Balkans. The one BIG difference was that the UN wasnt siphoning millions of dollars from the Food for oil program in the balkans. They were in Iraq though. and France was a huge player in illegal oil being smuggled out of Iraq also. you will find out in the next year after the investigation is completed and Chirac is removed from office. No wonder why he didnt wnat us to go to war! We should have finishsed the job in 1991 but we decided to give poilcy a chance and for 11 years Saddam laughed at us. that policy was not to even remove him from government but just to get rid of WMDs and prove it. thats all he had to do and we would have let the Murderer continue to be president. How can any one person or country justify NOT doing something now rather then when its too late.
Here'* a brief summary of the three great wars for those of you who would rather be educated by CNN media coverage instead of studying real history in school or on your own.
WW I
True to the military alliances, Europe'* powers quickly drew up sides after the assassination. (the literal "smoking gun" that set the War in motion: a revolver used by a Serbian nationalist to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand heir apparent to the Austro-Hungarian throne in Sarajevo on June 28, 1914.)
The allies -- chiefly Russia, France and Britain -- were pitted against the Central Powers -- primarily Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Eventually, the War spread beyond Europe as the warring continent turned to its colonies and friends for help. This included the United States, which joined the War in 1917 when President Woodrow Wilson called on Americans to "make the world safe for democracy."
The odds looked bad for the Allies in 1918. With Russia knocked out of the war by revolution and the French army rocked by mutiny, Germany stopped the Allies' offensive on the Western Front. But all of Europe was running out of men; both sides were drafting old men and young boys. The Kaiser no longer had effective power, with Generals Hindenburg and Ludendorff taking over.
In 1917, German U-boat attacks and German approaches to Mexico had provoked President Woodrow Wilson into a war he did not want to fight. Once in it, however, he urged the United States to "make the world safe for Democracy" and by 1918, five million American men were in uniform. In September of that year, the Doughboys went over the top and they were cut down like cornstalks. But the presence of American troops in France made a difference; the German army saw it could not win the war; thousands surrendered on the western front.
WW II
After WW I, America was into Isolationism. 80% of Americans did not want to be involve in a war overseas again. It took the bombing of pearl harbor to change that. 6 days later the germans also delcared war on us and everyone else in their way of conquering and killing. that is when United Nations formed with FDRs help. Which basically says that if you go to war with one free demcratic country, your going to war with all countries that signed the treaty.
Korean 'WAR'
Stupidly enough, Russia tried a hostile takeover of South Korea in 1950 using the North Korean surrogates of pyongyang to attack. Who was it that stepped int action and is still there now? thats right, the USA.
I have a 10 yr old girl and an 8 yr old boy. I worry every day about the increasing ignorance & hate the rest of the world has towards us. But still, i teach them to show love respect for all human life. Even for the people in the Mid East that are teaching their kids to hate us to the point were the kids think their only purpose in life is to kill us b/c we're not like them. When i say us, that means you to Canada! Do you think by not doing anything that 20 years time you'll be able to defend yourself from these kids that are weilding nuclear weapons with hate murder in thier eyes and more then willing to use them? I, so many times, wish we could be an isolationist country and not give a rats A$$ about Canada or any other country. But guess what, its more scary to think what would happen to this world and what would become of it for my children if we didnt get involved NOW.
The average american gives a rats *** about everyone! every race, every religion, every creed. The average american cant fathom human indignities in this day and age whether its being a communist state and a life with no hope or a brutal dictatorship where you are afraid to even speak or look someone in the eye or hostile takeover of tribal wars in the less developed countries. its really shocking that other free countries have been taught to look the other way and pretend nothings happening.
I'm running low on time so i cant go on defending America anymore today.
[/b]
Jeannie, great point.
Originally Posted by Jim W
Oh please, like America gives at rats a$$ about Canadians...
I admit the Bush admistrations PR sucks big time but their intentions remain true to the form of real american courage and will to continue to protect the FREE WORLD. This adminstration has only been here 4 years, how quickly people forget the other 234 years.
C,mon now, do you really think we want to have 100,000 service men in *. Korea for 50 years? Are we being greedy? or are we bullying someone? no, we are protecting * Korea and taiwain etc... b/c the asked us to protect them. Its our duty as being the only freeworld superpower left. Do you think America forces themselves upon the innocent country or poeple thats about to get slaughtered? Whenever any country is in danger by another country who do they call? thats right the US. what you dont hear b/c your media wont report it is how eternally thankful and grateful all those countries areto us b/c we are there for them. A misunderstanding by foreigners about Americans is our passion for freedom is so strong that we are willing to risk our lives for total strangers so they can taste freedom in thier lives and the lives of thier children but the people in other free countries cant fathom risking thier life for another country, so then we're accused of having alterior motives.
My Grandfather was fortunate enough to live through World war I where he saw almost everyone of his friends die in his squad. Why were we there? b/c we were asked to help by the allies. or maybe people think were were just there to bully the Germans? My grandfather was crippled and nearly deaf from saving Frances ***, and even though we gave a HUGE sacrifice of 100 of thousands of American servicemens lives to save some strangers in a strange land, my grandfather was damn proud of his country and the role he played to liberate france. thats how Americans feel. I am actually grateful hes not around now to see the France of today, it would break his heart. My father was in the Navy in the Korean 'war' from 50-53, risking his life for 3 years on a ship to keep really bad people from killing millions of innocent people. Does anyone that wasnt affected by this war give a Rats A$$? most likely not.
Do you really think we, the american people, want to have 120,000+ of our dearly beloved in Iraq? If the UN had any backbone, they would have removed him from government when he murdered 100,000s of thousands of his own people like when they backed removing Milosevic from the Balkans. The one BIG difference was that the UN wasnt siphoning millions of dollars from the Food for oil program in the balkans. They were in Iraq though. and France was a huge player in illegal oil being smuggled out of Iraq also. you will find out in the next year after the investigation is completed and Chirac is removed from office. No wonder why he didnt wnat us to go to war! We should have finishsed the job in 1991 but we decided to give poilcy a chance and for 11 years Saddam laughed at us. that policy was not to even remove him from government but just to get rid of WMDs and prove it. thats all he had to do and we would have let the Murderer continue to be president. How can any one person or country justify NOT doing something now rather then when its too late.
Here'* a brief summary of the three great wars for those of you who would rather be educated by CNN media coverage instead of studying real history in school or on your own.
WW I
True to the military alliances, Europe'* powers quickly drew up sides after the assassination. (the literal "smoking gun" that set the War in motion: a revolver used by a Serbian nationalist to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand heir apparent to the Austro-Hungarian throne in Sarajevo on June 28, 1914.)
The allies -- chiefly Russia, France and Britain -- were pitted against the Central Powers -- primarily Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Eventually, the War spread beyond Europe as the warring continent turned to its colonies and friends for help. This included the United States, which joined the War in 1917 when President Woodrow Wilson called on Americans to "make the world safe for democracy."
The odds looked bad for the Allies in 1918. With Russia knocked out of the war by revolution and the French army rocked by mutiny, Germany stopped the Allies' offensive on the Western Front. But all of Europe was running out of men; both sides were drafting old men and young boys. The Kaiser no longer had effective power, with Generals Hindenburg and Ludendorff taking over.
In 1917, German U-boat attacks and German approaches to Mexico had provoked President Woodrow Wilson into a war he did not want to fight. Once in it, however, he urged the United States to "make the world safe for Democracy" and by 1918, five million American men were in uniform. In September of that year, the Doughboys went over the top and they were cut down like cornstalks. But the presence of American troops in France made a difference; the German army saw it could not win the war; thousands surrendered on the western front.
WW II
After WW I, America was into Isolationism. 80% of Americans did not want to be involve in a war overseas again. It took the bombing of pearl harbor to change that. 6 days later the germans also delcared war on us and everyone else in their way of conquering and killing. that is when United Nations formed with FDRs help. Which basically says that if you go to war with one free demcratic country, your going to war with all countries that signed the treaty.
Korean 'WAR'
Stupidly enough, Russia tried a hostile takeover of South Korea in 1950 using the North Korean surrogates of pyongyang to attack. Who was it that stepped int action and is still there now? thats right, the USA.
I have a 10 yr old girl and an 8 yr old boy. I worry every day about the increasing ignorance & hate the rest of the world has towards us. But still, i teach them to show love respect for all human life. Even for the people in the Mid East that are teaching their kids to hate us to the point were the kids think their only purpose in life is to kill us b/c we're not like them. When i say us, that means you to Canada! Do you think by not doing anything that 20 years time you'll be able to defend yourself from these kids that are weilding nuclear weapons with hate murder in thier eyes and more then willing to use them? I, so many times, wish we could be an isolationist country and not give a rats A$$ about Canada or any other country. But guess what, its more scary to think what would happen to this world and what would become of it for my children if we didnt get involved NOW.
The average american gives a rats *** about everyone! every race, every religion, every creed. The average american cant fathom human indignities in this day and age whether its being a communist state and a life with no hope or a brutal dictatorship where you are afraid to even speak or look someone in the eye or hostile takeover of tribal wars in the less developed countries. its really shocking that other free countries have been taught to look the other way and pretend nothings happening.
I'm running low on time so i cant go on defending America anymore today.
[/b]
07-12-2004, 02:08 PM
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I woud have to agree that the UN is a bunch of *wimps*. First off they didnt want to go into Iraq, but then when we got Saddam and started to rebuild it, they wanted to jump right in for recognition. France hasnt won a war in their entire existence as a country.
I like to hear peoples side of the story. But, no one else but the US, knows what it felt like on 9/11. They attacked us. After that, war is a whole nother story. We arent going to sit back and wait for ppl to attack us.
When was the last time Canada won a war?
*Edited by Moderator*
I like to hear peoples side of the story. But, no one else but the US, knows what it felt like on 9/11. They attacked us. After that, war is a whole nother story. We arent going to sit back and wait for ppl to attack us.
When was the last time Canada won a war?
*Edited by Moderator*
07-12-2004, 02:11 PM
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long read...the only thing I wish to say is for all the anti-american americans to leave the country to the country they fell is better and never come back, they make it seams as if america dosent like america an we dont need that it opens us up for attack in more ways then we already have....wonder how many people in mexico hate america if there are so many in canada
07-12-2004, 02:21 PM
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good points. But to not get off track here, i sent this out to educate and enlighten us, ALL of us, not to get in a pissing match with those North of the border. I personally love Canada and have some really truly loyal cool friends up there. thats why the O'reilly story shocked me so much.
07-12-2004, 02:27 PM
#16
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WWII - We simply weren't ready to join yet. Our army was weak from the depresion. We know they needed us, but our economy was just getting out of the biggest depression we've ever seen. We were ramping up production, so we could fight on ALL fronts, which we did, and never asked anyone for anything. We let our part of Germany do it'* own thing while the USSR held onto theirs.
Just because we have the most of whatever, doesn't mean we HAVE to help everyone. It'* not our job to make everyone'* economy go around, while they're all trying to leach off of us. The Trade deficeit with Asian countries is startling to say the least. Our Tariffs are small, yet it'* nearly impossible for American built products to sell over there.
The UN has fallen apart. It doesn't have any authority, and it'* become a popular haven for everyone'* opinion, and no one'* actions. If it'* going to be a governing body for world politics, it should govern world issues. Saddam was given over a year to destroy anything he wanted.
We're being actively targetted, and attacked by people who don't even know why we really stand for. Thousands have fallen in an instant because we don't force a certain religion on us, or because we didn't help out some country like they thought we would. The only other country that in the last 10 years that has gone through what we have is Israel, and their military is all about defending their small strip in the desert.
To be blunt.... What the hell does Canada Need from the USA? There'* a reason what is it, 90% of your popluation lives within 100 miles of our border. Sure we care, but there was never any problem between us, and we can both take care of ourselves. That'* the point of seperate countries.
If people don't like us, then let us be, arent' we entitled to live however we want?
Just because we have the most of whatever, doesn't mean we HAVE to help everyone. It'* not our job to make everyone'* economy go around, while they're all trying to leach off of us. The Trade deficeit with Asian countries is startling to say the least. Our Tariffs are small, yet it'* nearly impossible for American built products to sell over there.
The UN has fallen apart. It doesn't have any authority, and it'* become a popular haven for everyone'* opinion, and no one'* actions. If it'* going to be a governing body for world politics, it should govern world issues. Saddam was given over a year to destroy anything he wanted.
We're being actively targetted, and attacked by people who don't even know why we really stand for. Thousands have fallen in an instant because we don't force a certain religion on us, or because we didn't help out some country like they thought we would. The only other country that in the last 10 years that has gone through what we have is Israel, and their military is all about defending their small strip in the desert.
To be blunt.... What the hell does Canada Need from the USA? There'* a reason what is it, 90% of your popluation lives within 100 miles of our border. Sure we care, but there was never any problem between us, and we can both take care of ourselves. That'* the point of seperate countries.
If people don't like us, then let us be, arent' we entitled to live however we want?
07-12-2004, 03:13 PM
#17
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I'll answer the rest of you later
War of 1812
World War I
World War II
Afganistan (we help you do whatever you did there and your pilot blew up 4 of our soldiers and wound 8 others)
And we dont start wars, we help when we have to and when we are called upon to fight a JUST CAUSE.
Nytro, you took my comment to heavily. Ask any American to name 10 things about Canada and they cant do it....thats what I meant by not caring....
When was the last time Canada won a war?
World War I
World War II
Afganistan (we help you do whatever you did there and your pilot blew up 4 of our soldiers and wound 8 others)
And we dont start wars, we help when we have to and when we are called upon to fight a JUST CAUSE.
Nytro, you took my comment to heavily. Ask any American to name 10 things about Canada and they cant do it....thats what I meant by not caring....
07-12-2004, 03:36 PM
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French influence
Quebec (sp) is the capital
Montreal Expos just beat my Pirates this weekend
Most live near the southern border
Edmenton Oilers sported one of the best hockey teams in the 80'*
Oh Canada'
Flag has a red leaf (dont know the name of it officially)
BlueJays won back to back World Series in the early 90'*
Have several different official languages
Think has 10 provinces and 3 territories
Royal Proclamation was with some boundary settling with the British.
Thats all I can think of right away from school, except the sports...
Quebec (sp) is the capital
Montreal Expos just beat my Pirates this weekend
Most live near the southern border
Edmenton Oilers sported one of the best hockey teams in the 80'*
Oh Canada'
Flag has a red leaf (dont know the name of it officially)
BlueJays won back to back World Series in the early 90'*
Have several different official languages
Think has 10 provinces and 3 territories
Royal Proclamation was with some boundary settling with the British.
Thats all I can think of right away from school, except the sports...
07-12-2004, 03:54 PM
#19
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LMAO
You guys are priceless....I gotta admit, I agree to all the points laid out and I wont argue, because we are all correct in our own way, I really hope the worlds perception on the US will change in the coming years. I dont like to be refered to as hated...ever.
And for the record, Canadians dont hate Americans, dont listen to uber conservative Bill O'Reilly, listen to real Canadians.
Twister...here we go
French influence...well its a second language
Ottawa is the Capital
The Montreal Expos are now split between San Juan PR and Montrel (go figure)
Most live in Ontario (GTA) 10 million or so of 30 million and all within 1-6 hrs of the US border
Oilers...lol, gotta love em
Oh Canada is the anthem
Our flag does have a red Maple leaf yes
Jays were world champs in 92, 93 and AL Pennant winners in 85, 92, 93 (AL East champs many times too)
Only 2 official languages, but we are very multicultural
10 provinces yes 3 Territories yes (and its NOT Providences)
I've Never heard of the Royal Proclamation?!
You guys are priceless....I gotta admit, I agree to all the points laid out and I wont argue, because we are all correct in our own way, I really hope the worlds perception on the US will change in the coming years. I dont like to be refered to as hated...ever.
And for the record, Canadians dont hate Americans, dont listen to uber conservative Bill O'Reilly, listen to real Canadians.
Twister...here we go
French influence...well its a second language
Ottawa is the Capital
The Montreal Expos are now split between San Juan PR and Montrel (go figure)
Most live in Ontario (GTA) 10 million or so of 30 million and all within 1-6 hrs of the US border
Oilers...lol, gotta love em
Oh Canada is the anthem
Our flag does have a red Maple leaf yes
Jays were world champs in 92, 93 and AL Pennant winners in 85, 92, 93 (AL East champs many times too)
Only 2 official languages, but we are very multicultural
10 provinces yes 3 Territories yes (and its NOT Providences)
I've Never heard of the Royal Proclamation?!
