Dislike my views?
09-16-2004, 02:42 PM
#21
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Any time you propose a differing view from the norm, you'll ruffle some feathers. But differing views are necessary sometimes to correct misconseptions. Some people may avoid your topics, but I personally love them. Even if I'm wrong. It'* a learning experience for everyone.
I'd like to encourage anyone, especially those that disagree, to participate in these topics. We need as much input and friendly argument/debate to hash out all the facts.
I'd like to encourage anyone, especially those that disagree, to participate in these topics. We need as much input and friendly argument/debate to hash out all the facts.
09-16-2004, 06:51 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by jr's3800
Dr Jay...
First I will say that I was not offend in any manner... A little irratated yes... And you have shed some good light on the Octane issue for sure... It has been a learning experience for all of us... But I also didn't totally care for that way it was brought to the table, I was in no way looking for a fight of any manner. But I have learned a little... Thats enough on that note... If anyone else wants to remark than go for it...
Now that we have all read the thread on octane, Yes we have learned a lot.. I will say that 87 can be ran in an SC'd car... But its not something I will reccomend... If you were in the middle of nowhere and 87 was the only thing out there well theres no choice there..
we are all part of this site and will be.... There will always be a debate no matter what... We have had some debates turn into a world of crapp, this one has become a learning experience for all.. I don't dislike your views, I learn from everything here weather I like or hate it..
Not sure if the other thread has been answered in a bit, but did we ever figure out what the milage was on the SSEi running off of 87?
First I will say that I was not offend in any manner... A little irratated yes... And you have shed some good light on the Octane issue for sure... It has been a learning experience for all of us... But I also didn't totally care for that way it was brought to the table, I was in no way looking for a fight of any manner. But I have learned a little... Thats enough on that note... If anyone else wants to remark than go for it...
Now that we have all read the thread on octane, Yes we have learned a lot.. I will say that 87 can be ran in an SC'd car... But its not something I will reccomend... If you were in the middle of nowhere and 87 was the only thing out there well theres no choice there..
we are all part of this site and will be.... There will always be a debate no matter what... We have had some debates turn into a world of crapp, this one has become a learning experience for all.. I don't dislike your views, I learn from everything here weather I like or hate it..
Not sure if the other thread has been answered in a bit, but did we ever figure out what the milage was on the SSEi running off of 87?
Yeah I wouldn't "recommend" 87 either but at least now if someone is ever stuck in hicktown with only 87 they might not sweat their nuggets off worried that they're destroying their engine.
Last I read GreenMachine was taking on the 'testing' aspect of the debate. He said it would be a few weeks. I think his results would be decent for a ballpark figure but there are so many variables it couldn't be used decisively.
09-16-2004, 08:05 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by DrJay
Last I read GreenMachine was taking on the 'testing' aspect of the debate. He said it would be a few weeks. I think his results would be decent for a ballpark figure but there are so many variables it couldn't be used decisively.
09-17-2004, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GreenMachine
Originally Posted by DrJay
Last I read GreenMachine was taking on the 'testing' aspect of the debate. He said it would be a few weeks. I think his results would be decent for a ballpark figure but there are so many variables it couldn't be used decisively.
09-17-2004, 11:26 AM
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No audible. Just scantool knock counts recorded. I got tired of waiting so tried some other experiments, so it spoiled my results. Based on willwren'* comments, I'm guessing under moderate driving, gas mileage will be similar. It only pulls timing under moderate to heavy loads. I know I said before it pulled timing at idle, but that turned out not to be true. What it did is pull timing when you shift from drive to neutral, but that happens regardless of the octane.
09-17-2004, 02:28 PM
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Re: Dislike my views?
Originally Posted by DrJay
I've heard recently that some people actively avoid my threads because I tend to bring up somewhat controversial topics and question what is "known." The Octane debate being a good example of it. If this is true I'd really like to set things straight and get feedback from anyone who may fit this category. I'm not going to argue with your views though, everyone is entitled to their own....
I'm one of those that always likes to question the status quo, think outside the box a little. Everyone, including myself, thinks they know things because they heard it from X or Y or X and Y but sometimes that information can be half-truth or misleading or flat out wrong.
A perfect example, just the other day I was reading in Popular Science I believe that scientists were dumbfounded to find out that nobody has actually done the research to discover if everyone does infact have unique fingerprints. Holy crap, but just 2 days ago I KNEW we all did and so did all of you but suddenly that changes to a maybe.
This is my goal of sorts. At the beginning of the Octane debate many KNEW it would destroy their engine, others KNEW some fuel provided more power, even others KNEW premium was a cleaner fuel....but suddenly (ok like 2 weeks) all that changes. Even though I heard some people still disagree with Scott Cook, GM, Whipple, Your owners manual and other sources provided...to each their own I guess.
Many people hold on tight to what they've been told and refuse to accept anything else no matter what the evidence, others are more open to ideas and will examine both sides and make a decision based on the facts provided. I'm not in any debate to make you see my way, although sometimes it turns into a "YES/NO" only debate. I'm only wanting to examine the facts. If I find a fact to question what is "known" then I'd like to present it and open it to debate.
My ideal debate would be X saying "Eaton says:" and Y saying "GM Says:" Instead of filling it with "I Think/Heard/Believe ..." If that kind of debate is too 'harsh' for some then sure it may be in the best interest to avoid some of my threads.
At least I know I'm not alone in it. A popular show "MythBusters" and a popular website www.snopes.com are both ones that question what is "known" and many seem to respect their views. Take some time to browse Snopes, see if you can go through 2 pages and never once say "Wow but I thought..."
The sad thing with myths and half-truths is people can know everything yet really know nothing...I don't want to be one of those people.
If that or the discussions I bring up because of it upset you I'd like to know why.
p.*. I haven't had coffee yet today (out and I'm lazy) so if any of that doesn't make sense or trails off try to get the jist of it
I'm one of those that always likes to question the status quo, think outside the box a little. Everyone, including myself, thinks they know things because they heard it from X or Y or X and Y but sometimes that information can be half-truth or misleading or flat out wrong.
A perfect example, just the other day I was reading in Popular Science I believe that scientists were dumbfounded to find out that nobody has actually done the research to discover if everyone does infact have unique fingerprints. Holy crap, but just 2 days ago I KNEW we all did and so did all of you but suddenly that changes to a maybe.
This is my goal of sorts. At the beginning of the Octane debate many KNEW it would destroy their engine, others KNEW some fuel provided more power, even others KNEW premium was a cleaner fuel....but suddenly (ok like 2 weeks) all that changes. Even though I heard some people still disagree with Scott Cook, GM, Whipple, Your owners manual and other sources provided...to each their own I guess.
Many people hold on tight to what they've been told and refuse to accept anything else no matter what the evidence, others are more open to ideas and will examine both sides and make a decision based on the facts provided. I'm not in any debate to make you see my way, although sometimes it turns into a "YES/NO" only debate. I'm only wanting to examine the facts. If I find a fact to question what is "known" then I'd like to present it and open it to debate.
My ideal debate would be X saying "Eaton says:" and Y saying "GM Says:" Instead of filling it with "I Think/Heard/Believe ..." If that kind of debate is too 'harsh' for some then sure it may be in the best interest to avoid some of my threads.
At least I know I'm not alone in it. A popular show "MythBusters" and a popular website www.snopes.com are both ones that question what is "known" and many seem to respect their views. Take some time to browse Snopes, see if you can go through 2 pages and never once say "Wow but I thought..."
The sad thing with myths and half-truths is people can know everything yet really know nothing...I don't want to be one of those people.
If that or the discussions I bring up because of it upset you I'd like to know why.
p.*. I haven't had coffee yet today (out and I'm lazy) so if any of that doesn't make sense or trails off try to get the jist of it
09-18-2004, 01:36 AM
#29
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To All,
I have read all of the post in the octane forum with great interest and there were many great points on both sides. I also commend you for taking all the time to do the research required to put that together. I also can say that I understand what is being said, because fuels and octane have been up for debate for the 45+- years I've been dinking with cars..... and now for the "But"
even armed with all of the new found "book learning" and "research", I still find myself pulling up to the premium pump, add my fuel additive and just bucking up for the extra cost involve.
Two last things
1. Opions are like arm pits, everybody has two and they both stink
2. Not everyone is gonna agree with you, welcome to life
I liked your work DrJay, keep it up, you've got the guts to do the thing that most people won't and those that can't do ..... bitch
I should get some hate mail now, It'll take the heat off you
ken
I have read all of the post in the octane forum with great interest and there were many great points on both sides. I also commend you for taking all the time to do the research required to put that together. I also can say that I understand what is being said, because fuels and octane have been up for debate for the 45+- years I've been dinking with cars..... and now for the "But"
even armed with all of the new found "book learning" and "research", I still find myself pulling up to the premium pump, add my fuel additive and just bucking up for the extra cost involve.
Two last things
1. Opions are like arm pits, everybody has two and they both stink
2. Not everyone is gonna agree with you, welcome to life
I liked your work DrJay, keep it up, you've got the guts to do the thing that most people won't and those that can't do ..... bitch
I should get some hate mail now, It'll take the heat off you
ken
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