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Old 08-17-2007, 11:36 PM   #21
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Wow, there'* a lot more people believing this than I thought would. Sad.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:41 PM   #22
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I think it'* best to keep it civil...

Everyone has different opinions on what happened (as do I).. I have seen alll the videos on 9/11 and also saw footage filmed by a friend on that morning. There is no doubt that a plane hit the WTC but WHAT plane was it a bomb laden cargo pane or a passenger filled passenger plane ? and what hit the pentagon a missile or a plane? Some of the questions we all have might not ever be answered.

I do know one thing tho we are places we shouldn't be. And what better reasons to be the places we are in then to make our public believe that innocent civilians lost there lives.

(I'm going to take flack for this but again everyone has there opinions)

I firmly BELIEVE that the actions taken on 9/11(If committed by someone other then our government) Should be considered an ACT of war not terrorism think about it the warning were given and IGNORED. A so called Coward fires missiles from war ships 500 miles away and those missiles hit schools and hospitals.

It happened but WHY thats the question.
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:14 AM   #23
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I watched the second plane hit the tower. I don't think that was staged. A close personal friend of mine lost a cousin on that plane. I lost an acquaintance in the Pentagon. In fact, I myself was killed in the collapse of the towers. Look it up.

Nor was anything 'planted' in that building either. When massive destruction on a chaotic level occurs, the results often baffle the sharpest scientific and engineering minds in the world. You cannot predict chaos, and weird things happen. I deal with chaotic destruction on a much smaller scale every day at work, and science and logic fail to predict the results daily.

Conspiracy theories will always be a part of our society. You can't get away from that. But as adults human beings, it'* our responsibility to discuss and debate these issues in a logical, respectful state of mind, while keeing in mind that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, whether they are believers in something or not.

Clean it up in here, or this topic is gone.
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:40 AM   #24
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not to be a prude but a lot of us have done photoshopping before and this site breaks down a lot of pics of the pentagon. If you live anywhere near the pentagon. You will understand how some of the pictures were in fact photoshopped.

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Old 08-18-2007, 12:57 AM   #25
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I must respectfully disagree.

I do not believe the government had a hand in this.

Some extremist nut whackjobs hijacked some planes, ran them into buildings and the leader of the group took credit

Did our government have any warning? Maybe an incomplete picture, MAYBE

The same government who pays close to a million bucks to ship some lock washers and even pays the invoice before the error is caught...masterminded THIS? You're kidding me right?

Are they telling us everything? Of course not, more likely out of security or possibly even embarrasment issues rather than a "cover up"

Is there more to the story? maybe

In any incident, event, disaster, etc, its possible for the facts to be spun, distorted, presented in such a way to gain the favor of the "presenter" if you will. Tell the same story to 10 different people, and have them retell the same story to one person, you will get 10 slightly different versions.
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Old 08-18-2007, 01:17 AM   #26
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Walked into the lounge with the juiciest thread i would ever want to see, and a chance to bring my world view up. Hehehe. All wars since the middle of the 1800'* have been started in some form or fashion by the same people/machine. Ever since the Opium trade started and a new world order and money machine had begun, the same people have been financing wars and practiced pitting two sides against each other and collecting the profits. The same people/families have ruled the world since then. And countries per/se are just pawns/fodder in their hands. Prescott Bush financed Hitler, his father WW1, George Sr has had his hand in Central America since CIA financing brought Castro into power. They were as well responsible for Che'. The result funneled huge profits and rekindled a lucrative drug trade that culminated with having to throw Oliver North to the masses as a rogue(Ya,... right) The Vietnam War also brought yet more huge cash to the war machine and respread heroin across the globe. Now they have made more money off Osama/Afganistan/Iraq then any of the previous. Whatever particular "conspiracy theory" or "take"
you might have on 9-11, the powers that be brought them down to bring our patriotism once again to a ferver that allows us to justify the money spent and without forethought to where all that money ended up as it spirals towards the top.

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Old 08-18-2007, 03:53 AM   #27
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I agree with a lot of things on both sides of the story.

After watching videos regarding the WTC for several hours now to get more information, I've found a lot of interesting facts that may just be coincidences, but they would certainly make me question what happened that day if I were there first-hand.

Originally Posted by GonneVille
Rigging those buildings for demolition would taken months, caused incredible amounts of noise and dust, and used many miles of specialized cables and explosive cords, not too mention requiring cutting through massive steel beams that are covered in concrete that would have to be jackhammered off first.
I found video of two employees of the WTC on completely different floors who spoke of extremely loud construction-related noises on floors directly above them in floors that were recently cleared out - weeks before 9/11. Noises so loud they would shake the floors. Large amounts of dust were found on their own floors on the following days, covering the window/doors, and window sills.

There were also several evacuations of the buildings in the recent weeks leading up to 9/11, as well as several "power-downs," one lasting the weekend before 9/11, in which all security cameras/systems were inactive. These same two employees saw several construction workers entering the building during these evacuations/power-downs, they did see people with rolls of some kind of cord. If two people witnessed these things I'm sure many more did.

When I found out about this it certainly got me hooked on finding out more. And while it may be just coincidence, it is very eerie to put yourself in their shoes and look back on 9/11 with the suspicions that they had while all these things were happening.

Another thing I really feel weird about is the second plane. After looking at numerous videos, I can honestly say that it does not look like a commercial airliner to me. The color is probably the biggest reason I believe this, including the suspicious "pod" on the belly, and the flash of light prior to impact. BUT, I also found two videos, one in particular which was a home video, not edited, by a couple in their apartment a couple blocks away who taped the whole thing. When the second plane hits, I was SHOCKED to hear the woman say "Oh my God! That was a military plane!" Now this is right when it happened! The other video I found was of the frantic people on the street right after the second plane hit, and a woman screamed "That was not American Airlines!!"

Anyway, the best opinion I can form after watching hours of video isn't that it was a big conspiracy, but that there ARE several FACTS that DO raise valid questions about what really happened that day and why things have been hidden from the public. Honestly, I don't trust George Bush or Dick Cheney one bit. I just get a really bad vibe from both of them, especially when I see Bush speak to reporters and avoid and/or has difficulty answering tough questions.

But do I think that they spearheaded a plan to take down the WTC and attack the Pentagon/shoot down a plan in PA? I suppose the biggest reason why I find it so hard to believe is the fact that a plan like this would take several people to coordinate. Everyone involved in this plan would have to be trusted not to leak information....this would especailly include the construction workers who would have to rig the building with explosives. Who were these people and how could they all be trusted?

The conspiracy all seems hard to believe, but the most simple explanation isn't always the truth either. Even a terrorist attack like this one would have taken a LONG time to coordinate. A conspiracy like this could easily take place with the right amount of planning. And I think that there are enough greedy, corrupt individuals in the FBI, CIA, White House, politics, etc. that if Bush/Cheney wanted some kind of cover-up of anything done it would happen. Neither explanation, conspiracy nor terrorist attack, is a simple one.

There are a few things that I DO believe 100%:
1. WTC 7 was taken down by controlled demolition (obviously set up in advance...raises question about the towers)
2. There were bombs/explosives of some sort in the towers
3. Flight 93 was shot down...or some plane was shot down. The lack of wreckage among other things is obvious. I saw a video of a witness who saw a small plane go down, not a Boeing airliner. She was questioned by the FBI and they tried to put words in her mouth. Either way, I find it hard to believe a large airliner simply crashed in the woods.

Overall, I'll end by saying even though this was most likely a terrorist attack, the government has showed some very guilty behavior about 9/11. And that is usually enough for anyone to believe a conspiracy theory.
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Old 08-18-2007, 04:07 AM   #28
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I have serious doubts about the conspiracy theories. There are far easier ways to start wars than to fly airplanes into your own buildings.

Besides, that only "justified" the "war on Terror" in Afghanistan. Iraq was a hunt for weapons of mass destruction mainly, and not based on any terrorist threat or action. I just see no reason for anyone to do 9/11 on purpose. Even if you did think that the Bush family was behind every war since the 1800'*, it makes no sense. It would have been easier to just pay Osama to do it anyway, vs. mastermind it and make it all complicated like the conspiracy would have it.

I've just got to throw this out there though: A war against Terror is doomed to fail. Terror is not an enemy, it is a tactic. Until we are willing to identify the real enemy (which seems to be Muslims who are convinced that killing us is the ticket to Paradise and 50 virgins), we can not fight them.

All of the above is my opinion, of course...
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Old 08-18-2007, 10:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by GonneVille
Originally Posted by LakevilleSSEi
Originally Posted by Mopar MAN
Question: Why were the beams cut straight across like that? Answer: Because that is the easiest way. Straight line is the shortest distance between two points. There were major structural elements and huge pieces of structure lying around, that had to be cut using oxy-acetylene torches.

How exactly would you get into that building with a big enough torch set and enough supplies to do that?
The same way they get them into ships at salvage yards. How the H*** do you think they scrapped out old warships with thick armor plated hulls and decks?

BTW, are you a pilot? Do you have your license? I think a few people here do. Why don't you ask them if a 757 could hit the biggest office building in the world?

How tall was that building.......?

757 could be point and shoot as much as a gun.....just a matter of making correct manuevers.

Still didn't answer on how you would just "waltz" right in the trade center basement with torches. What would you tell security? "Ya I'm here to torch the building supports" ?
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:32 AM   #30
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Nobody went into the building with torches. The cutting was done AFTER the collapse. It'* kind of hard to move enormous (200 feet wide, by 75-100 feet tall in the case of the standing walls left on the "stub", weighing several THOUSAND TONS) pieces of steel around without cutting them up.

And I don't find it at all surprising that there was construction going on in the towers. THEY WERE OFFICE BUILDINGS! Companies move in, companies move out, and each time the space has to be remodeled to some extent. Sure there was dust, and thudding noises. Knock a non-structural wall down, and you'll get that.

As for WTC building 7....something like 1/4 of the structural support of the bottom 3 floors was destroyed by the debris of the towers, literally ripped away. Some of the rest was still there, but compromised by debris impact, I.E. bent, twisted, or dented. About 1/3 of the weight bearing structure was not working, and all the structural load was still there. And that was being actively dis-tempered by fire.

Put it this way: Literally thousands of structural engineers have looked at all the data, pictures, and the actual debris. They have MILLIONS of hours of actual working experience with how steel, concrete, and other building materials behave under stress, in impacts, and in fires. But the conspiracy theorists have.....well, none of them seem to be structural engineers. Or have ever built a steel structure. Or worked with aircraft. Or pretty much anything that involves anything that they claim to know more about than the people who actually DO that stuff.

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