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Old 08-05-2004, 10:40 AM   #1
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Default Attn: All! Are you Sheep?

The owner of PPF (Deathrat) has violated expectations made by the Admins and Owner of this site by offering parts for sale through PM'*, and posting publicly about it. PPF is not a recognized vendor at this site, and in fact, we STRONLY discourage any member here from doing business with PPF/Deathrat.

If any further details are needed besides what you read in this thread, please ask an Admin.

Please report any 'commercial' activities on Deathrat'* part to an Admin immediately.
This is a violation of our expectations of you when you lost your vendor status. This was clarified recently. You have lost the right to send PM'* until we decide what action will be taken.

The entire Staff has been notified of this action and possible future action.
Well I guess it'* okay to ask for my help to contact Ty & then stab me in the back afterwards.....
In my defense....I offer alot of Bonneville related items & have honoured EVERY contract I've made regarding sales of EVERY item from my store. I do have a short temper & yes I did made a mistake awhile back on this forum. BUT! To tell others that they shouldn't do business with me, when even yourselves (BC Staff) haven't bought a single item off me, is wrong! I believe you can recommend others not to do business with based upon past events, but let'* face it, I've tried to gain my vendor status back & you (BC Staff) refused to even let me try. In fact, I even asked in pm'* what would it take & my question was never answered!

1) What would it take to allow me to post again in this forum?
2) What would it take to allow me to advertize to the members of this forum?
And finally.....
3) What would it take to be recognized as a "VENDOR" again of BC?
I've done some thinking & then more thinking in the last while. My store has grown into a FWD Performance Store now. My sales are steady as well. After reading various posts in the last while, I feel I've got some items that some here may be of interest in. All BC discounts will remain in effect regardless of this board'* decission.

I do hereby promise not to use this board (or it'* members) as any sort of "pawns" now or in the future. I do also promise to only post what I feel is useful info regarding the Bonneville or it'* sub-components. I've read this notice concerning myself ( ) & feel now I can truely represent this community better than I did in the past through my knowledge & my products. All I ask is a chance to prove myself once again to this community.

First I want you to know that you have always been allowed to post here... We have never said that you couldn't...You are still a member and can post as such..

We still stand by our decision that you are not to have any links in your sig to your store or site...

I say we let the "PEOPLE" of this forum decide for themselves on what to do with their money! I've decided to publically voice my opinion here for ALL to see as I've got nothing to hide. But alas....this post will probably just get deleted by some mod or admin & you all will never even know I've even made it! In fact! I challenge the BC Staff to leave this post here for ALL to see & let the members of this forum voice their OWN opinions regarding me & my store!
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Old 08-05-2004, 10:58 AM   #2
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hmmm it looks like its goin to be somethin started here

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Old 08-05-2004, 11:02 AM   #3
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No, Al. This will stay.

The words in the Revoked Vendor Status update (my post below Jim'*) are JEFF KEACHER'* words. Cut and pasted from an email.

He is in full agreement with the 3 Admins of this site. You are a shitty vendor, and have tried to manipulate the Staff of this site by using the members of this site as Pawns. We have all of the documentation saved and preserved, and would be MORE than happy to release it to the public if that'* what you want.

You contacted another Admin less than 3 weeks ago asking if you could return. We explained to you that you were never banned, simply that you still had no vendor status for the reasons explained in the NOTICE. You were told you could not use BC as a tool to sell product, as we don't recognize you as a vendor any longer.

You violated that yesterday.

The owner of the site and the 3 Admins make these decisions as a team.

So I leave it to you:

Do you want the Admin Team to release all correspondence and documentation regarding our dealings with you for public consumption? (This would include all YM conversations, emails, and posts)?????

Quite frankly, the point is moot. Even the site owner agrees that you should no longer sell product on our Site.

As far as USING you to contact Ty, that was because this isn't personal between us, and I felt that the two of us could communicate better with Ty as a team. No backstabbing there.

The backstabbing was you violating the expectations we laid out for you. The members of this forum are well aware of your short-tempered personality, your history on the Yahoo Forum (where I was your Moderator), the 4 times you left BC in a rage, the failure of BA, and the recent history of your Vendor Status Revocation. Our revocation wasn't the cause of your lack of business. Your attitude was.

You don't sell a single part on your site that can't be purchased elsewhere for less money. Your business practices with regards to this site suck. You've sold parts to members here that they didn't need, and you knew they didn't (after participating in the mechanical troubleshooting discussion, as well). Your quote to me was (paraphrased) "I'm in BUSINESS! I'll sell a part to anyone who wants it". Wrong. You set a higher standard for yourself when, as a VENDOR, you try to help someone FIX or TROUBLESHOOT their car. Then you sell them parts you know won't fix the problem?

You are worse than Floz and SC Performance with regards to business practices.

We are not denying the right to our members if they choose to do business with you. That'* ridiculous. If they want to, they can. We are suggesting to our members (as it'* our responsibility to do) that it might not be a good idea. Your practices suck.

Your 3 friendly Admins try to make the decisions we feel are best for the members, and communicate it fully. We're warning the members that there are issues. The site Owner backs us fully in this decision regarding Deathrat/PPF.
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Old 08-05-2004, 11:05 AM   #4
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I never was really into performance like that so I never bought from anyone unless it was a factory part and that was from a regualr parts store. The things thats been going on between Alan Vs. The Bonneville Club is kinda blurr to me cause I wasnt in town to read these post. I just remember reading an announcement on the Notice Section. Other than that I cant really say who is rigth or wrong.

I am not a sheep
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Old 08-05-2004, 11:12 AM   #5
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I think that it'* important for members of BC have confidence in the vendors they deal with, more so when there is some sort of endorsement on the part of the Club itself in recommending a vendor.

From a personal perspective, when I deal with a vendor I'm most interested in a clear line of cominication with a view to them doing as they say they will. Being able to trust someone to deliver as advertised is of utmost importance.

Clearly, in this case, there have been issues between PPF, DeathRat and members of BC. In the interest of clearing these matters, and on the basis of being accused of being a sheep, let'* have ALL the facts on the table and we can go from there.

If there is to be any reconciliation on this...let'* hear it all.

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Old 08-05-2004, 11:20 AM   #6
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i usually dont say much and i dont know who is really right or wrong but i do know is that for all members to understand the issue the issue should be in plain daylight not to embarrass someone but to show us whats goin on and why it was goin on and also is there a good way to fix this prob
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Old 08-05-2004, 11:46 AM   #7
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I will release the archived information with Deathrat'* permission only. The information could prove personally embarassing to him, and he'* still a human, and a member here. We're not in the business of destroying people, and it'* a fine balance to try to maintain.

There is no conspiracy here, as has been inferred by Deathrat in the past and recently. This is a decision jointly made by the 3 Admins and the Site Owner made in the best possible way we knew how, based on the information we had at our disposal.

I take the Vendor issue seriously. I take every opportunity to find new vendors and sources, and to also identify troublesome vendors. The history at BC includes the 'blacklisting' of 4 vendors. 3 of them were undisputed. Only PPF remains an issue, and mainly because Deathrat is still a member here. We never had the reason or desire to ban him from membership, so we didn't.

We made the decision based on his business practices, in order to give our members ample and FAIR warning about what was going on behind the scenes. The members here deserve that warning.

The way you spend your money, and what you get for it is of importance to the Staff. We want you to have the best experience possible. If you choose to deal with PPF, that'* your personal decision, but any issues that arise are out of our hands to assist you with.

Deathrat/PPF will not use the Bonneville Club Forum as a tool to do business. This was communicated very clearly to him when his status was revoked some time ago (refer to NOTICE on this subject) and again more recently (refer to Deathrat'* own comments in the first post of this thread).

I have no personal issues with Al. This has been proven time and again, and he'll tell you that himself. Even with the 'rift' between BC and BA/PPF, we communicated regularly on troublesome people, vendors, and issues, working as a team for the member'* benefit. Any bans and IP addresses were always shared for this purpose, in order to provide a 'safe' environement on each site.

This is a BUSINESS decision made as best we can with the information we have.
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Old 08-05-2004, 11:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: Attn: All! Are you Sheep?

Originally Posted by DeathRat
I say we let the "PEOPLE" of this forum decide for themselves on what to do with their money! I've decided to publically voice my opinion here for ALL to see as I've got nothing to hide.
...then we await the OK to have all the facts on the table, otherwise any sort of informed decision would be impossible. Surely you'd be willing to do this Alan, otherwise you have no basis to call anyone a sheep.

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Old 08-05-2004, 01:14 PM   #9
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Regarding PPF Vendor status though......As I said earlier, my actions may effect my store with regards to BC members. If they do so be it......Even before ALL this happened, not one single BC member has bought a single item from me to date as is. Based upon this, I have nothing to lose from them then. Yes, revoking the the 5% discount may have been a bad idea.....It was just a hasty action & was used to blow off some steam. It has now been re-instated.

Sincerely, Alan Ralston
Maybe Al himself can help us out:

Originally Posted by DeathRat
Originally Posted by willwren
Because of your 2 past threats to revoke member discounts over personal issues on this club, the Admins of this site do not feel it is in the best interests of our members to use you as a vendor. Your vendor rights have been revoked for this reason.

Please remove any reference to your store and website from your signature, and do not post as a vendor, or at all any longer in the Vendor'* forum.

This was a Staff decision. We cannot tolerate a vendor that uses emotion and personal issues against our members. Your past threats drove this decision.

And no, this isn't a personal attack by myself. This decision was made in conference with Staff. All Admins present, and Moderator representation.
My sig stays "AS IS" Will.
But I'll tell what instead.....I'll leave this "club" & not post anymore.
I already knew my days here were numbered.
In time my present posts will fall into the archives & be forgotten anyways.
You want to "EDIT" my sig, go for it! Just make damn sure you note in my sig that YOU did then!
My posts regarding PPF will stay in the Vendors forum UNLESS YOU chose to remove them! If you do, please give all members notice of what had happened, & not sweep in under the rug as usual around here lately.
I will make one last post in the Vendors forum to inform all members of your decision. I will keep it on topic & cool headed too.
This isn't a one-man show, Al. Everything that happens here has at least 3 Admins consenting. It may or may not be me that edits your sig. I can tell you that it probably WON'T be me, just because of your comments here. Don, Jim, and I all have equal authority and responsibilities on this site. We consent, or we don't move on something. Most issues also involve the Moderators. Ignore the little voices in your head that are whispering 'dictatorship'. We fully document everything as well, so that Jeff has the opportunity to see that eveything was handled above-board and fairly. That is true in this case also.

You asked me to announce the decision made. How much detail will you allow me? Members will want to know the real reason behind it, and I personally feel they deserve to know.

Inbox :: Message
From: DeathRat
To: willwren
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: Vendor status
Tell them what you wish....As I don't care anymore about this site.
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:22 pm Post subject:



We'd be remiss to tolerate Al'* repeated, hot-headed mood swings. I agree with the decision to revoke his vendor status; in addition, links to his site should be removed.

Indeed, the members deserve an explanation. Perhaps the best way to
describe the situation would be to explain that Al'* actions have been tantamount to a termination of the business relationship between the board and his company: he revoked the member discount and thus indicated that he no longer views BC members as important customers (no "professional" discount). With said action, Al has therefore expressed that he no longer wishes to be a vendor associated with BC, so it is perfectly reasonable that Al'* vendor status should be revoked.


Originally Posted by DeathRat
I just noticed that my recent sig was edited.
It was a link to the PPF Forum though.
It read exactly like this: Admin of Bonneville Info Archive Forum

Now since it'* a Bonneville Info Archive.....why was it removed from my sig?
It has nothing to do with the store, other than the fact it'* on the exact same server as the store.

I also noticed my home page link was also removed too.
PS I re-added it again too.

Is it because it starts off with & someone sees it & just erases it with actually trying it first? I know it'* on the same server site...but come on now...I'm trying to conserve $$$ here & utilize my site'* resources of course.

Just so you know....NO "other" forum has a problem with this sig!

LMK what'* going on please & why....
Thnx Al
If I'm not mistaken, your signature has now been edited by all 3 Admins. I did the edit today. Your forum has a direct association with your store. Not only does it have an obvious link to your store on the header bar, but the forum itself has dedicated sections for your store. Your WWW link is the same.

You have lost vendor status at this forum. You will not link to it in any way whatsoever, or you will be banned. When an Admin modifies your signature, that'* final. You will NOT change it back. I take that as a personal assault on my authority at this forum, and the other Admin'* authority as well. It will not be tolerated.

You are now prohibited from having a signature or www link of any kind.
bonniebrougham: hello
wrens67: Welcome to the conference.
wrens67: You see who'* here?
wrens67: 2 Admins and a mod.
wrens67: All that are online.
pureperformancefever: yup

wrens67: You are in the same boat as SCperformance and Floz. Only we've not banned you. Do you understand that so far?
wrens67: If an Admin or Moderator gives you instructions, you will follow them.
pureperformancefever: seems more like a personal attack really
wrens67: If you make any further threats against BC, all correspondence with you will be posted publicly and communicated to all other forums.
wrens67: All recent correspondence has already been shared with Staff.
wrens67: Do you have any other questions?
bonniebrougham: that'* how it seems to you, however, he does have a point.
pureperformancefever: fair enough no more threats then

pureperformancefever: yes I do
pureperformancefever: with regards to my pm to you Will
wrens67: Shoot, Al.
wrens67: Which one?
pureperformancefever: I still don't understand why my personal web page or my info forum has to do with me not being able to publically show then on BC
wrens67: Your WWW link was to the PPF forum. That forum has a dedicated section for your store, and a header bar link to the store.
pureperformancefever: So I have links to the store on them so what.... so do other people too
wrens67: Your profile still listed you as a Vendor.
wrens67: You are a REVOKED vendor.
wrens67: You were instructed to have no links to your business in your signature or profile.
wrens67: Your profile and sig have been edited 3 times by Admins. You continue to put them back.
pureperformancefever: doesn't make me none the less a vendor though
pureperformancefever: but i'm not talking about that though
wrens67: Did you follow the instructions given to you?
pureperformancefever: my personal web page is just that my web page
wrens67: I'll answer that for you. NO.
pureperformancefever: I've got many links on that page
wrens67: Did you add info back in after it was removed by an Admin?
wrens67: Yes.
pureperformancefever: same with the forum
wrens67: And you knew better.
wrens67: Admins have the final word on all issues.
pureperformancefever: the only info I added back in was my sig
wrens67: After you KNEW it was removed by an Admin.
pureperformancefever: all other info was there until you or someone else removed it today
bonniebrougham: I do understand both sides of the story, HOWEVER, there are other homepage hosters.
wrens67: You have specific instructions Al. Abide by them.
bonniebrougham: it is not necessary to have one that directly links to your store
pureperformancefever: i figured my total sig was removed based upon the main link to the store
wrens67: You may not have a signature or WWW link. You've lost that right.
bonniebrougham: and believe me, if we catch anyone'* site having a link to a store, they will be dealt with accordingly.
wrens67: When it disappeared, you KNEW it was by an Admin.
pureperformancefever: therefore I re-issued the sig w/o the link to the store
pureperformancefever: I knew it disappeared when another member told me it had disappeared
wrens67: BEFORE you communicated or asked? You've been an admin. You know better.
pureperformancefever: so basically I can't link to ANYWHERE then? right?
bonniebrougham: Not anywhere on your PPF site, no.
wrens67: You may post a link back to the PPF forum after you totally disassociate it with your store in every way. Deal?
pureperformancefever: no
pureperformancefever: You know I can't do that Will
wrens67: Then no signature.
wrens67: You knew the rules.
wrens67: Do you fully understand your restrictions and limitations?
pureperformancefever: well in that case I might as well shut down the forum do to I can't tell anyone about it then!
pureperformancefever: I think they are unfair
wrens67: If that'* your decision.
pureperformancefever: but that doesn't seem to matter

wrens67: You have lost vendor status. You know why. It'* best for BC to not deal with you as a vendor. You are no different than Floz or SCP.
wrens67: In many ways, you were worse.
pureperformancefever: if you think that'* true that'* upto you Will
wrens67: You tried to manipulate the Staff of BC with threats against the members. That'* low.
pureperformancefever: so I have a short fuse & temper
wrens67: You know it'* true, Al. And the entire Staff is fully aware of all of it.
wrens67: No editing. Direct copies.
wrens67: Yes, you do.
wrens67: Does that mean it'* right?
pureperformancefever: I didn't say that Did I?
wrens67: Is it fair to the BC members you threaten to screw?
wrens67: Didn't say what?
pureperformancefever: Upto lately not one single member of BC has ever bought anything off the store anyways
wrens67: I'm playing by the rules, fairly, and within my authority. I'd prefer to ban you and end this, but that wouldn't be right.
wrens67: Then why the fuss?
pureperformancefever: therefore revoking a discount nobody used is non important
wrens67: One member did. He bought coils that he didn't need with your prompting.
wrens67: Then why make the threat in the first place, if it didn't mean anything?
pureperformancefever: all I wanted was to advertize the forum I constructed which is full of GM TSBs & such
wrens67: That was the 2nd time you made that exact same threat in 6 months.
wrens67: And nobody visits PPF. Ever wonder why?
wrens67: Admin hat off.......your f*** up attitude Al. That'* why.
pureperformancefever: Matt'* purchase is not true! He bought them fully aware that I niether said he needed them or not needed them first
wrens67: You knew he DIDN'T need them!
wrens67: And you sold them anyway.
wrens67: You never told him ONCE that he didn't need them, even though you KNEW.
pureperformancefever: if someone wants to purchase them....then I sell them to them
wrens67: And that'* not why you lost your status.
pureperformancefever: I'm a business man here!
pureperformancefever: I'm out to make $$$
wrens67: But as a VENDOR, you participated in that thread.
wrens67: That makes you responsible. If you make money off a deal that shouldn't have been, you just took advantage of a member of BC.
pureperformancefever: all my customers know I will NOT diagnose their problems based upon any purchases
wrens67: But you DID participate in that thread.
pureperformancefever: Matt DID need coils though!
wrens67: No he didn't.
wrens67: Go back and read it.
wrens67: Don?
wrens67: Remember that one?
wrens67: 9 out of 10 gearheads surveyed agree.
pureperformancefever: one WAS bad
jrsbonneville: somewhat
jrsbonneville: yes
pureperformancefever: that is what Matt told me anyways
jrsbonneville: it wasn't the coils
wrens67: Bingo.
pureperformancefever: So if a customer who belongs to BC wants to purchase an'* my job to make sure first they really need then first?
pureperformancefever: I sell parts!
wrens67: You screwed a member of BC out of over 100 bucks
pureperformancefever: if they wish to buy them that'* up to them
pureperformancefever: I don't hold guns to people'* head here Will
wrens67: If you participate in their troubleshooting thread, you better DAMN WELL BELIVE IT!
wrens67: You KNEW he didn't need coils, and never told him.
pureperformancefever: Matt doesn't think so therefore That'* all that matters to me as a business owner
wrens67: That is the LAST member you will f*** on BC as long as I live and breathe.
wrens67: You're cheap and shallow.
wrens67: You WERE a member of that forum once Al. What happened?
wrens67: People used to respect you. You used to care. A year ago, you would have NEVER done that.
pureperformancefever: nothing happened
pureperformancefever: I still don't believe I "screwed" anyone here
wrens67: This is all moot. You're not a vendor any more. You have your rules for maintaining membership. No links to your store, or your forum as long as it'* linked to your store. No signature, no WWW link.
pureperformancefever: fine then
wrens67: If you push this any further, we will make this entire thing public to justify our actions and decisions.
pureperformancefever: that will not be necessary

wrens67: No more threats from me or from you then?
pureperformancefever: I've wiped all info from my profile
wrens67: End of discussion?
pureperformancefever: I will not be returning to BC
pureperformancefever: ever
jrsbonneville: ok goodnight
pureperformancefever: I guess this is goodbye
wrens67: Thank you for your time. I hope you learn some lessons.
pureperformancefever: you too will
wrens67: You may find success someday if you listened to me.
Yahoo! Messenger: pureperformancefever has left the conference.
wrens67: Well boys and girls?
bonniebrougham: that was messy...
wrens67: Damn.
jrsbonneville: too much of a temper
wrens67: Sweetie, that has been brewing for over 2 years. Don can back me on that.
bonniebrougham: no ***^
bonniebrougham: i know that
jrsbonneville: he will never get far
bonniebrougham: believe me i've heard
wrens67: You still reading that coil thread?
bonniebrougham: indeed
bonniebrougham: i'm getting irritated on page 2 already
jrsbonneville: it was all a bunch of BS
wrens67: I'll never forget that one.
wrens67: classic.
wrens67: brb
bonniebrougham: alrighty
jrsbonneville: Christy can you link me to that thread?
wrens67: You should see the REST of my PM'* tonight. You know why he retracted his threats so readily?
jrsbonneville: ??
wrens67: He remembers very well what we did with Floz and SCP.
wrens67: I pursued Floz to the ends of the earth. Even other forums.
bonniebrougham: that'* a GOOD thing though, ive heard about his work
wrens67: I forgot about that 86 coil crap.
jrsbonneville: lol
jrsbonneville: yeah I saw that
jrsbonneville: um no worky
bonniebrougham: oy
bonniebrougham: today is a new day
bonniebrougham: it WILL be better today
jrsbonneville: lol
bonniebrougham: mumbles incoherently
Al, do you have any comments? Or do you want me to release more? Is everyone ELSE satisfied? Or do you want more as well?
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Old 08-05-2004, 01:31 PM   #10
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oh my.... i want more.
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