If the fuel pump relay for your year is above the passenger foot well then you can swap the relay with another one. I think all those relays are the same. Try swapping with the horn, rear defogger or fog light relay. Make sure the relay you swap with has the same part #. Sometimes when a fuel pump is dieing it'll stop working when the pump gets warm. Since the fuel will keep it cool this won't happen until the fuel level gets low. Do you know how much fuel has been in the tank when your car quit?

Yes, I switched the relays back in March when I first started having this problem. The car started fine upon til now. The strange thing is both of the relays work now.
I'm going to check the grounds for the accessories shortly.

When she died, I checked to see if the security light stayed on and it didn't. What would the VATS do after you did turn the key to crank three times, and it didn't start because of the wrong reading on the resistor chip? How would you resolve this?

I had just put gas in her when she died.

I just reread the whole thread & see we had already discussed the relays, sorry about that. I'm going to try & cover all the bases in this post & will be repeating (again) some of the things we already covered. If I can give you enough info you should be able to solve this next time the problem occurs.

I doubt if taking it to a garage while it’* running will do any good. Anything they could check is going to be working.

I looked at a wiring diagram again & Vats would disable the starter. Vats should also never be an issue for a car stalling.

Swapping the relays should have pretty much ruled them out.

When the key is turned to the run position the pump gets power just for a couple seconds to pressurize the fuel rail. That’* why I said we couldn’t be sure the pump wasn’t getting power without knowing how the mechanic checked it. If he checked for power with the key in the start position we could be pretty sure that the pump wasn’t getting power. He also would have had to check using the same ground the fuel pump uses.

There are 2 ways to check for fuel pressure. The best & safest way is with a fuel pressure gauge. They cost about $40 & hook up to a Schrader valve on the fuel rail. The other way is to remove the cap from the Schrader valve & press the center of the valve with a small object. Which ever way you choose to check you need to put rags around the valve to catch any leaking fuel. If the pump is working there will about 50 pounds of pressure at the rail. Using the second method can spray fuel all over you and the hot engine. You’ll need to position your hands & the rags so the fuel doesn’t hit you in the face. Whichever method you use you should practice while the engine is cold. If you get gasoline on the engine don’t start it up until it has a chance to evaporate.

Assuming the car has stalled & has no pressure at the fuel rail you’ll now need to check for power going to the fuel pump. You can check this with a light bulb or voltmeter. You should find a test lead (gray?) between the battery and fender. You can connect a 12 volt light bulb or voltmeter between the test lead & the negative battery terminal. If you are by yourself when the car stalls you probably won’t be able to use a voltmeter. I made up a test light by soldering a 12v light bulb to a lamp cord that is about 6 feet long. I then connected an alligator clip to one of the other ends of the wire and soldered the other wire to prevent fraying. Now just push the soldered end into the test lead & hook the alligator clip to the negative battery terminal. The cord will be long enough to place the light bulb on the passenger seat. Bulb should light for a couple seconds with key in run position & stay lit while cranking. If the bulb lights up the fuel pump or the fuel pump ground is bad.

If the pump is not getting power you’ll need to see if you’re getting power from the PCM to energize the relay & check for power at the relay for the pump. Remove the fuel pump relay. On the bottom of the relay there should be 4 numbers 85, 86, 87 & 30. Connect the alligator clip to the negative battery terminal & the soldered end to where prong #30 would normally be. Most likely this one will be fine. Now check where prong #85 would be. You may have to turn the key off then back on. I’m not sure if the light will come on for a couple seconds or stay on. Also check with key in start position. If the light comes on move the wire from the negative battery terminal to where prong #86 would be. If the light doesn’t come on now the ground for the relay is bad. If the light comes on try to start with a third relay. If the light doesn’t come on we’ll need someone with a factory service manual to tell us under what conditions the PCM won’t send power to the relay.

I know this probably sounds complicated but it’* really not that hard to do. It’* a step by step procedure that’ll get you the answer to the problem if it is indeed fuel related.

If the engine quits again before you get a chance to rig up a test light try kicking the carpet where the ground busses are located. Maybe you’ll get lucky.

The bulb I used is a GE 90. It'* a single filament bulb with both contacts on the bottom. Tape bottom of bulb before using.


PS. I still need to proofread this. Edit - Proofreading done.

Thanks again for helping me out with this. I plan on putting your advice into action tomorrow. I was going at her today but it didn't stop raining. So I have dedicated all of Monday to figuring this out. Hopefully I'll get some answers.

One other thing. The arcing that is occurring at the relay.

Try doing all the electrical checks while the engine is still working. That way you'll be ready when it acts up.

Can you explain better what you mean by arcing relay. Pictures? Did both relays do this ?

I don't know if i miss lead you, but there was never a problem with her stalling. The problem was getting her to start. So I'm thinking the VATS is more of a possibility.

The fuel pressure at the rail is fine.

I checked the fog light relay that I swapped with the fuel pump one back in March and didn't notice any burn marks on it. There is a new relay for the fuel pump in her now, I'll have to wait and see if the marks reappear.

I don't know if you would call it arcing, but that'* the word I used to describe what I think may be the cause of the burn marks that I noticed around the contacts on the relay.

Cleaned the ground busses on both sides again today. I even got the ground wires out of its casings and gave them a good cleaning. I got lights!!!! yeah.

Went out and bought solder and a12 v bulb. Dad is going to see if he'* got an old cord that I could use. Great idea. Thanks.

Yeah, a couple posts sounded like it had stalled. It doesn't really matter.

Most of the problems with VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System) have been with the VATS module not being able to read the resistance of the pellet in the key. One of the things the VATS module does is disable the starter. Since the starter is working we can be fairly certain the module is able to read the pellet. I'm quite certain that VATS will also disable the fuel pump so it may be possible that a faulty VATS module could allow the starter to operate but not the fuel pump.

Glad to see you double checked those ground busses & now have the lights working. Hopefully that was also the starting problem.

If the problem happens again & the test light doesn't work when hooked up to the terminal from the PCM that energizes the relay then VATS will be highly suspect.

I looked at a couple of my relays & they also had a kind of overheated (burned) look to them. I think the metal prongs are just tarnished.

It'* been a week now, any problems since cleaning the grounds again?

A week later, and still going strong. That'* for the starting issue.

As for my locks and lights. I don't know????
Lights are some what working, but the door locks are on the whack!!!
I can unlock the door locks with the power locks but it won't let me lock them. I have to lock all doors manually, and that'* getting annoying. Any ideas on that?

I'm was going to check out the MALL. I read a thread on how to check it. But never got a chance to yet hopefully I'll get at it this week sometime.

Well I got a chance to check out the MALL today. Both connections on the MALL looked good, not loose or anything.

Entered into the MALL diagnostic procedure. I got 1 bong for the seat belt, 2 bongs for the battery protection, 3 bongs for the courtesy light circuits, and I also got 4 bongs but don't know what it is for. It done this 3 times pausing for a few seconds between cycles. It then entered into the input/output mode. I checked each component individually.
Auxiliary Chime=> Got a bong but no chimes work.
Interior Lights=>Got a bong
Turn signal=> Got a bong
Trunk release=> Got a bong
Power locks=> Got 2 bongs for unlock and no bongs for lock.

So what do you think? Need a new MALL!! Anyone know the cost of one?