I just can't wait
01-19-2007, 05:47 PM
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I just can't wait
I ordered some wheels which are due to arrive Monday. I did a quick photoshop with them on my car. I can't wait to lose the steelies & hubcaps.
As some of you may recognize, they are oem 2007 Mustang bullit wheels. I know, I know, they are 5x114.3, not 5x115. I've done a bunch of research, and have found many Grand Prix owners using these without a hitch (high 45mm offset, same hub size) They are fresh pulls mounted with brand new Pirelli PZero Nero 235/55ZR17 meats.
Again, I know the bolt pattern is slightly different, so please share any evidence of problems that have been observed (as I had trouble finding many).
As some of you may recognize, they are oem 2007 Mustang bullit wheels. I know, I know, they are 5x114.3, not 5x115. I've done a bunch of research, and have found many Grand Prix owners using these without a hitch (high 45mm offset, same hub size) They are fresh pulls mounted with brand new Pirelli PZero Nero 235/55ZR17 meats.
Again, I know the bolt pattern is slightly different, so please share any evidence of problems that have been observed (as I had trouble finding many).
01-19-2007, 07:24 PM
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Do know that mounting a different bolt pattern can be extremely dangerous. I don't know all the details, but I do know that it isn't a good idea. I'll let someone who knows their stuff inform you if that is the case. But my recommendation would be to check your lug nut torque often.
01-20-2007, 02:41 AM
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Thanks for the input. I did buy some different center caps to replace the Ford logo (didn't want my Pontiac to be infected with the Ford virus 
)
wjcollier07, I understand that using the wrong bolt pattern can be potentially dangerous. However, here'* what I know (or think I know): 5x114.3 is only 0.7mm smaller diameter than 5x115- very small difference, possibly within the margin of error machining of the wheels. And, from what I gather, we have hubcentric wheels on our Bonnies. Since the Bullit wheels use the same hub size, it will fit properly on the hub. I've read that hubcentric mounting puts most of the stress on the hub, not the studs. Therefore, as long as the lugnuts are tightened with a torque wrench (not an impact wrench) my wheel studs should be safe. The lateral stress applied by the slightly smaller bolt pattern of the wheel should be minimal. Overtorquing lugnuts would do more damage, even on the correct bolt pattern (i.e. snapping studs off).
Again, this is my speculation from the researching I've done. Perhaps it has been laced with bullshit, but it sounds logical to me.
)wjcollier07, I understand that using the wrong bolt pattern can be potentially dangerous. However, here'* what I know (or think I know): 5x114.3 is only 0.7mm smaller diameter than 5x115- very small difference, possibly within the margin of error machining of the wheels. And, from what I gather, we have hubcentric wheels on our Bonnies. Since the Bullit wheels use the same hub size, it will fit properly on the hub. I've read that hubcentric mounting puts most of the stress on the hub, not the studs. Therefore, as long as the lugnuts are tightened with a torque wrench (not an impact wrench) my wheel studs should be safe. The lateral stress applied by the slightly smaller bolt pattern of the wheel should be minimal. Overtorquing lugnuts would do more damage, even on the correct bolt pattern (i.e. snapping studs off).
Again, this is my speculation from the researching I've done. Perhaps it has been laced with bullshit, but it sounds logical to me.
01-20-2007, 11:55 AM
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"...the bolt pattern is slightly different, 114.3mm on the M to 115mm I believe on the new 300. While this ain't much, we have had much debate, especially on what that could mean in the long term. You are putting more strain on the studs and lug nuts as they wont be seating 100% flush with where they are supposed to, and you may also be asking for added vibration on things like the wheel bearings."
Although many owners are running the 5x114.3mm bolt pattern on their new '300 series' models without a problem, it also appears that many still continue to experience problems as well.
I just bought my new rims and Discount Tire wouldn't mount the 114.3'* because they are not the correct bolt pattern for the car. They have many cars that come in with some shudder and broken lugs so they made it company policy not to install anything other than what the car bolt pattern calls for. I sent the original ones back and got 115'*. Personally, for what I paid for the car, I would wait it out and get what comes on the car.
I have 5x114.3. One tire place would not even so much as balance my tires due to the fact they did not want to be held liable for any problems coming from the wrong bolt patter, and even went to the trouble of printing up and copying a letter stating that I would not sue them if something happened to me while driving on them.
On the other hand I have gone to 2 other HIGHLY recomended wheels shope Wheelspecialists and Total Auto Pros in Tempe and Phoenix, they both said no problem we do it all the time without issue...
There is a shake that will not go away, even with the newly installed hubcentric rings from 65-75 mph.
I am getting refunded this week, for the DUB Moab wheels I bought a while ago, and I am hoping to find wheels in the 115x5 but the ones I really want are the Zenetti Heir, they are even pictured in Zenetti'* catalog (not online) but the only bolt pattern they make that wheel is 114.3x5. Wonder why that company would go build a wheel and put it on their catalog with an incorrect bolt pattern?
On the other hand I have gone to 2 other HIGHLY recomended wheels shope Wheelspecialists and Total Auto Pros in Tempe and Phoenix, they both said no problem we do it all the time without issue...
There is a shake that will not go away, even with the newly installed hubcentric rings from 65-75 mph.
I am getting refunded this week, for the DUB Moab wheels I bought a while ago, and I am hoping to find wheels in the 115x5 but the ones I really want are the Zenetti Heir, they are even pictured in Zenetti'* catalog (not online) but the only bolt pattern they make that wheel is 114.3x5. Wonder why that company would go build a wheel and put it on their catalog with an incorrect bolt pattern?
My 4 decades of performance driving lead me to disagree with your claim. The center hub was never engineered to center the wheels. A slight error of even a millimeter there multiplies as it moves out from the hub. The lugs are designed to center the wheel and hold it firmly in position. The wheel must line up perfectly on the lugs. 114.3 mm wheels do not line up on 115 mm lugs.
Hub centering rings are not the right way to solve the problem. Once vibration starts, it almost always gets worse.
Many years ago, I felt the right front wheel and tire vibrate violently then roll down the road ahead of my car as I rapidly descended a hill on a busy 2 lane black top. Soon the right front of my vehicle dipped, throwing my car into the path of a large Semi 18 wheeler. By the grace of God, I hit the opposite shoulder and eased into a ditch - a fraction of a second before the truck barrelled by.
Why did the wheel come off? I had oversized the wheels with mismatched rims and one wheel vibrated loose. No part of the car takes more stress than where the wheels are bolted to the lugs.
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Hub centering rings are not the right way to solve the problem. Once vibration starts, it almost always gets worse.
Many years ago, I felt the right front wheel and tire vibrate violently then roll down the road ahead of my car as I rapidly descended a hill on a busy 2 lane black top. Soon the right front of my vehicle dipped, throwing my car into the path of a large Semi 18 wheeler. By the grace of God, I hit the opposite shoulder and eased into a ditch - a fraction of a second before the truck barrelled by.
Why did the wheel come off? I had oversized the wheels with mismatched rims and one wheel vibrated loose. No part of the car takes more stress than where the wheels are bolted to the lugs.
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The difference between 115mm (factory) and 114.3mm is 0.028".
In machinery, that is a huge difference. On the wheels on my car that would be totally unacceptable. Even with hub-centric wheels, I would be concerned with vibration, and if bolt circles don't match the lug nuts won't seat evenly. This could cause galling between the nut and wheel or possible loosening during driving.
This may be a slightly paranoid viewpoint from someone who had wheels come off his car because of (now discontinued) universal-mount wheels.
More than once. Actually, they never came all the way off, I was able to stop quickly enough when they began to vibrate. The lug nuts would slowly work loose during driving.
I also had major problems with some Breyton wheels Discount Tires mounted on my BMW without installing the hub-centric spacer rings. Although the lug nuts were tapered and should have centered the wheels, vibration was terrible no matter how they installed them.
I will never again install wheels on a car that aren't specifically designed to fit THAT car.
I used to care a lot more about getting the best deal. Now I care most about getting the best equipment.
I wonder if anyone else out there watching have had similar problems with non-specific wheels?
In machinery, that is a huge difference. On the wheels on my car that would be totally unacceptable. Even with hub-centric wheels, I would be concerned with vibration, and if bolt circles don't match the lug nuts won't seat evenly. This could cause galling between the nut and wheel or possible loosening during driving.
This may be a slightly paranoid viewpoint from someone who had wheels come off his car because of (now discontinued) universal-mount wheels.
More than once. Actually, they never came all the way off, I was able to stop quickly enough when they began to vibrate. The lug nuts would slowly work loose during driving.
I also had major problems with some Breyton wheels Discount Tires mounted on my BMW without installing the hub-centric spacer rings. Although the lug nuts were tapered and should have centered the wheels, vibration was terrible no matter how they installed them.
I will never again install wheels on a car that aren't specifically designed to fit THAT car.
I used to care a lot more about getting the best deal. Now I care most about getting the best equipment.
I wonder if anyone else out there watching have had similar problems with non-specific wheels?
The point is simple engineering. The lugnut is tapered, and designed to sit flush in the tapered hole of the wheel to CENTER it, with FULL contact to hold. Full surface contact.
With 114.3x5 on your car, you will have ONE POINT of contact on each lug to the wheel. Instead of a full 360 degrees.
01-22-2007, 02:12 PM
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willwren, the wheels were already ordered at the time of the original post, and are due to arrive today. Perhaps I am being a bit naive, but I'm still optimistic. Since Bonnevilles use hubcentric wheels and my wheels are supposed to have the same hub size hole, the hub should keep the wheel centered. But, obviously the conical lug nuts will not make 100% contact witht he wheel. My plan is to use some blue loctite on the studs and torque them to 110ft-lbs. This should keep them tights. I will test it on the highway for any vibrations/shuddering. Hopefully it will be fine. Otherwise, the wheels will be back on eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...0795767&rd=1,1
Those were another option, but they cost $50 more, have used tires, and the tires get far worse reviews (i.e. 27th out of 28 on tirerack.com with low scores on everything).
No offense to other owners, but I'm staying away from oem Bonneville wheels. If I'm spending my money on new wheels, I don't want something stock. If anyone has any other suggestions for wheels, feel free to chime in.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...0795767&rd=1,1
Those were another option, but they cost $50 more, have used tires, and the tires get far worse reviews (i.e. 27th out of 28 on tirerack.com with low scores on everything).
No offense to other owners, but I'm staying away from oem Bonneville wheels. If I'm spending my money on new wheels, I don't want something stock. If anyone has any other suggestions for wheels, feel free to chime in.
