if you need anything more info let me know I can get you all the instructions for removing the I/P items

Well i found the CCM, and got to the HUD. Tried the disconneting one and checked the speedo, then for the other. The speedo still will not read anything. Like i said earlier i know the signal is leaving the PCM, now i know the CCM and the HUD most likely are not the issue. I guess could it be just a bad cluster, but would the cluster affect the HUD. Now the dealer did test the gauges with a TECH II and said all the needles were fine. Also where can i find the wiring diagrams for this stuff so maybe i can trace out the wires to see if they interface with something else that hasn't been checked

If the gauges work properly, then its definitely somewhere between the gauge and the PCM.

I'll see if I can ask someone with an alldata subscription.

schematic and diagnostic
http://s919.photobucket.com/albums/a...=SpeedoSch.gif
Document ID# 1461455
2005 Pontiac Bonneville
Speedometer and/or Odometer Inaccurate or Inoperative

<A href="http://127.0.0.1:9001/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1461455&pubid=868&evc=sm&cellI d=50582#ss1-1461455">Test Description

The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table.

1. [*]

Step
Action
Values
Yes
No
Schematic Reference: Instrument Cluster Schematics
1
Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle in Vehicle DTC Information
2

1. [*]

Does the Vehicle Speed Sensor parameter match the speedometer display?
--
Go to Step 3
Go to Step 4
3
Does the odometer operate properly?
--
Go to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections in Wiring Systems
Go to Step 15
4

1. [*]

Does the Vehicle Speed Sensor parameter match the speedometer display?
--
Go to Step 9
Go to Step 5
5

1. [*]

Does the Vehicle Speed Sensor parameter match the speedometer display?
--
Go to Step 10
Go to Step 6
6

1. [*]

Does the voltage measure greater than the specified value?
9.0 V
Go to Step 8
Go to Step 7
7
Test the vehicle speed signal circuit for an open, a high resistance, or a short to ground between the instrument panel cluster (IPC) and the PCM. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 17
Go to Step 11
8
Test the vehicle speed signal circuit for a short to voltage. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 17
Go to Step 12
9
Inspect for poor connections at the harness connector of the cruise control module. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 17
Go to Step 13
10
Inspect for poor connections at the harness connector of the HUD. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 17
Go to Step 14
11
Inspect for poor connections at the harness connector of the IPC. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 17
Go to Step 15
12
Inspect for poor connections at the harness connector of the PCM. Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 17
Go to Step 16
13
Replace the cruise control module. Refer to Cruise Control Module Replacement in Cruise Control.
Did you complete the replacement?
--
Go to Step 17
--
14
Replace the HUD. Refer to Control Module References in Computer/Integrating Systems for replacement, setup, and programming.
Did you complete the replacement?
--
Go to Step 17
--
15
Replace the IPC. Refer to Control Module References in Computer/Integrating Systems for replacement, setup, and programming.
Did you complete the replacement?
--
Go to Step 17
--
16
Replace the PCM. Refer to Control Module References in Computer/Integrating Systems for replacement, setup, and programming.
Did you complete the replacement?
--
Go to Step 17
--
17
Operate the system in order to verify the repair.
Use the scan tool in order to clear the DTCs that may have set in other modules during diagnosis.
Did you correct the condition?
--
System OK
Go to Step 2

Document ID# 1461455
2005 Pontiac Bonneville

I was unable to find PCM connector Pin #* for you I will look again tomorrow night.

Thanks man, i really appreciate all the info. Any info you can pull would be much appreciated. I will give this a try and let you know.

No problemo try to find PCM harness info later today

Document ID# 1226448
2005 Pontiac Bonneville
Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Connector End Views

<A href="http://127.0.0.1:9001/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1226448&evc=sm&pubid=868&cellI d=25626&mspsdsubkey=4244#tab1-1226448">Powertrain Control Module (PCM) C1






Connector Part Information

• 80-Way Connector (BLU)
• Body - 12160549
• TPA - 1216056A
• Terminals - 12084913
• Shield - 12160921

Pin
Wire Color
Circuit No.
Function
1
BLK
808
Low Reference
2-3
--
--
Not Used
4
LT GRN
1222
1-2 Shift Solenoid Valve Control
5
DK BLU
473
High Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control
6
DK GRN
335
Low Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control
7
BLK
630
Camshaft Position Signal
8
PPL/WHT
430
Low Resolution Engine Speed Signal
9
LT BLU/BLK
647
Medium Resolution Engine Speed Signal
10
GRY
605
5-Volt Reference
11
--
--
Not Used
12
TAN
413
HO2S Low Reference
13
ORN/BLK
469
Low Reference
14-15
--
--
Not Used
16
BLK/WHT
1551
Ground
17
RED/BLK
645
Low Reference
18
--
--
Not Used
19
WHT
1390
Off/Run/Crank Voltage
20
ORN
240
Battery Positive Voltage
21-27
--
--
Not Used
28
TAN
413
HO2S Low Reference
29
TAN
413
HO2S Low Reference
30
PPL
420
TCC Brake Switch/Cruise Control Release Signal
31
BLK
552
Low Reference
32
GRY
435
EGR Solenoid Low Control
33
DK BLU
496
Knock Sensor 1 Signal
34
LT BLU
1876
Knock Sensor 2 Signal
35-37
--
--
Not Used
38
LT GRN/WHT
1749
IAC Coil B High Control
39-42
--
--
Not Used
43
YEL/BLK
846
Fuel Injector 6 Control
44
YEL/BLK
1223
2-3 Shift Solenoid Valve Control
45
--
--
Not Used
46
LT BLU/BLK
844
Fuel Injector 4 Control
47
BLK/WHT
845
Fuel Injector 5 Control
48
RED/BLK
453
Low Reference
49-52
--
--
Not Used
53
TAN/BLK
424
IC Timing Signal
54
WHT
423
IC Timing Control
55
DK GRN/WHT
817
Vehicle Speed Signal
56
BLK/WHT
1551
Ground
57
BLK/WHT
1551
Ground
58
PPL
1807
Class 2 Serial Data
59
PPL
1807
Class 2 Serial Data
60
BLK/WHT
1551
Ground
61
BLK
452
Low Reference
62
DK BLU/WHT
1231
AT ISS Low Signal
63
RED/BLK
1230
AT ISS High Signal
64
YEL
400
Signal High - Front
65
PPL
401
Signal Low - Front
66-67
--
--
Not Used
68
YEL
772
Transmission Range Switch Signal B
69
YEL
492
MAF Sensor Signal
70
--
--
Not Used
71
ORN/BLK
463
Requested Torque Signal (w/NV
72
DK GRN
83
Cruise Control Inhibit Signal
73
LT GRN/BLK
1745
Fuel Injector 2 Control
74-75
--
--
Not Used
76
DK GRN/WHT
428
EVAP Canister Purge Solenoid Control
77-78
--
--
Not Used
79
BLK
1744
Fuel Injector 1 Control
80
BLK
808
Low Reference
<A href="http://127.0.0.1:9001/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1226448&evc=sm&pubid=868&cellI d=25626&mspsdsubkey=4244#tab2-1226448">Powertrain Control Module (PCM) C2






Connector Part Information

• 80-Way Connector (CLR)
• Body - 12160549
• TPA - 1216056A
• Terminals - 12084913
• Shield - 12160921

Pin
Wire Color
Circuit No.
Function
1
--
--
Not Used
2
WHT
1310
EVAP Canister Vent Solenoid Control
3
DK GRN/WHT
465
Fuel Pump Relay Control
4
WHT
257
EGR Solenoid High Control
5
BRN/WHT
419
MIL Control
6
--
--
Not Used
7
LT BLU/WHT
1747
IAC Coil A High Control
8
WHT
121
Engine Speed Signal
9
TAN/BLK
464
Delivered Torque Signal (w/NV
10
PPL
412
HO2S 1 High Signal
11
PPL
1670
HO2S 2 High Signal
12-15
--
--
Not Used
16
WHT
776
Transmission Range Switch Signal P
17
--
--
Not Used
18
BLK/WHT
771
Transmission Range Switch Signal A
19-22
--
--
Not Used
23
YEL
5
Crank Voltage
24
PNK
39
Ignition 1 Voltage
25
LT GRN
432
MAP Sensor Signal
26
YEL
410
ECT Sensor Signal
27
RED/BLK
380
A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Signal
28
BRN
1456
EGR Valve Position Signal
29
GRY
23
Generator Field Duty Cycle Signal
30
GRY
605
5-Volt Reference
31
--
--
Not Used
32
GRY
605
5-Volt Reference
33
GRY/BLK
605
5-Volt Reference
34
GRY
474
5-Volt Reference
35
BLK
808
Low Reference
36
--
--
Not Used
37
DK GRN
676
HO2S Heater High Control Bank 1 Sensor 1
38
--
--
Not Used
39
DK GRN/WHT
459
A/C Compressor Clutch Relay Control
40-41
--
--
Not Used
42
PNK/BLK
1746
Fuel Injector 3 Control
43
--
--
Not Used
44
LT BLU/BLK
1748
IAC Coil A Low Control
45
RED/BLK
1228
PC Solenoid Valve High Control (Sol. A)
46
LT BLU/WHT
1229
PC Solenoid Valve Low Control (Sol. A)
47
--
--
Not Used
48
BRN/WHT
3123
HO2S Heater High Control Bank 1 Sensor 2
49
LT GRN/BLK
444
IAC Coil B Low Control
50
TAN
472
IAT Sensor Signal
51-52
--
--
Not Used
53
TAN/WHT
331
Oil Pressure Sensor Signal
54
--
--
Not Used
55
DK GRN
890
Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Signal
56
GRY
773
Transmission Range Switch Signal C
57
--
--
Not Used
58
BRN
1174
Oil Level Switch Signal
59
LT BLU/BLK
396
Cruise Control Engaged Signal
60
GRY
847
Extended Travel Brake Switch Signal
61
RED
225
Generator Turn On Signal
62
--
--
Not Used
63
YEL
657
TCC Release Switch Signal
64-65
--
--
Not Used
66
DK BLU
417
TP Sensor Signal
67
--
--
Not Used
68
YEL/BLK
1227
TFT Sensor Signal
69
PPL
1589
Fuel Level Sensor Signal
70-75
--
--
Not Used
76
YEL
447
Starter Relay Coil Control
77
--
--
Not Used
78
BRN
418
TCC PWM Solenoid Valve Control
79-80
--
--
Not Used

Document ID# 1226448
2005 Pontiac Bonneville

Well i found the speed Signal and checked the voltage it read 7.62v at the PCM harness. The Diagnostic said it should read under 9.0v. So if i understood it correctly the speed signal from the PCM is good now when i traced the wire up to the Cruise it only read 1.62v and the same at the HUD and the connector at the back of IPC.
So my question is, should it have a drop in voltage by that much from the PCM to the rest of the components or what should the voltage read at the Cruise, HUD and IPC.

I would say you have problem in speed sensor signal problem possibly high resistance
6

1. <LI type=1>Turn OFF the ignition. <LI type=1>Disconnect the PCM connector C1. <LI type=1>Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2. Measure the voltage from the vehicle speed signal circuit to a good ground.

Does the voltage measure greater than the specified value?9.0 V NO
Go to Step 8
Go to Step 7 next step
7
Test the vehicle speed signal circuit for an open, a high resistance, or a short to ground between the instrument panel cluster (IPC) and the PCM. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 17