Business 101... design of a product has to be a careful blend of what the customer wants and what the manufacturer can provide while making a profit.

My logic has nothing to do with taking out a speedometer or changing wheels... my logic is that as an OWNER of a GXP I have found the brakes to be MORE than adequate for the given environment. Anyone guessing at the motivation of the design as as silly as a determination that the car is under designed without providing REAL engineering data. It passed safety standards and there has not been a reported brake design failure when operating the vehicle under normal/expected operating conditions. If you know of a place in the US where I can sustain 100+ mph without causing or being the benefactor of an accident or a ticket book full of violations please give me directions.

Let'* face it the wheels and the speedometer are aesthetic and aimed more at looks than performance. The GXP was (I say was since GM has decided to discontinue the Bonneville line) a niche car aimed at a specific segement of the market... 30-40 year old professional males with incomes of $75K-90K... I think production numbers of 2500 in 04 and 5000 in 05 are evidence of that point. Those in the upper end of the target market will probably migrate to the Cadillac V line, those in the lower end the GP GXP. Both of these product lines are designed with a specific cusotmer and environment in mind... neither car was designed to run super speedways ro strip tracks.

The GXP performs well and in initial reviews was given high marks by C&D and other sources and the brake design was commented as a positive component. I'm not trying to be aurgumentative but just think that a better paper be used in this litmus test. Do I like my car, NO... I love it!

Did a little “engineering” research in hopes of putting this to bed…

2005 Mercedes Benz C320
V6@215 RWD
WT 3450
60-0: 127ft
200ft skidpad: .80g
13.6” F/12.6”R brake rotors

2005 BMW 530i
V6@225 RWD
WT 3550
60-0: 120ft
200ft skidpad: .82g
12.8”F/12.6”R brake rotors

2005 BMW 330i
V6@235hp RWD
WT 3362
60-0: 124ft
200ft skidpad: .90g
12.8”F/12.6”R brake rotors

2005 Infiniti M45
V8@340hp RWD
WT 3851
60-0: 123ft
200ft skidpad: .80g
11.4”F/11.5”R brake rotors

2005 Bonneville GXP
V8@275hp FWD
WT 3790
60-0: 126ft
200ft skidpad: .81g
12.7”F/11.7”R brake rotors

From the numbers it would appear that the Bonneville is fairly standard in equipment and performance within the list of comparable US imports (comparisons with European or Japanese models not for import would be unrealistic). The most closely configured vehicle is the Infinity and it has more base horsepower and smaller brake rotor surface yet it is still able to post pretty impressive braking numbers. Can’t argue with the numbers… (source: Modern Racer, www.modernracer.com)

Fair enough, that'* what I wanted to see - numbers, not anecdotes. Now if they could only deliver the juice to the correct end of the car...

#'* don't show Fade, brake dust, or longevity. The problem street brakes run into is fade, when on the road course.

So true, the numbers are just the numbers. However comapred to other vehicles in the same class the GXP is configured similarlily with respect to the intended environment. Keep in mind that the design of the suspension and stabiltrack system all contribute to how the car handles. Braking is one aspect of handling.

I agree that fading would be very important on a car "designed" or "modified" to run road courses. The GXP in the stock configuration was designed for highway driving. If I intended to use the vehicle on a road course or a drag strip I would definitely consider performance mods that would benefit that environment. The discussion here was aimed at questioning the design based on the intended environment. I agree that brake dusting is a big problem, I live that problem every day and clean it up every weekend. However, in normal driving conditions that dust is a nuisance and MAY indicate a reduction to longetivity... since I only have 8500 miles on my car and the brakes seem to be wearing comparable to other vehicles I have owned the jury is still out. However as far as brake fade goes I can say the car has never exhibited any signs of fading or reduced braking capability in the intended environment. Let'* keep in mind this car was designed with road performance in mind... in the spirit of objectivity, I don't think there are other model years that would be subjected to racing environments without performance and safety enhancement. Why would you want to put the GXP to any different standard?

The car is what the car is... a sport luxury. If you are looking for something more then buy something more. If you expected more from YOUR GXP then you probably didn't do the necessary research. MY GXP performs as advertised and is a blast to drive and very comfortable. Would I take it on a road course or the drag strip? No! I don't feel the vehicle was designed with that environment in mind and since there is a lack of any performance mods readily avaiable I'll settle for emphasizing the luxury aspects of the car.

I do find it humorous that so many non GXP owners are so hyper critical of the design. Maybe I am the only GXP owner satified with my purchase but more than likely the only one silly enough to argue in this forum.

The materials used are the main factor in the fade. Those Sedans from accross the pond probably don't go through rotors like american cars do. I'm not saying hte GXP is bad, but if you're gonna throw 18'* on, fill em up IMO.

Why not hold the GXP to a higher standard? It'* supposed to be a higher standard is it not? The point about fade is apparant if you livein europe and travel on unrestriced freeways and roads. A few 100 MPH stops and you're cookin them! I've gotten some fade (not as much as before) when i broke in my brakes.

Oh yeah, guess I overlooked that "designed for the Autobahn" stamp on the product brochure. When you're over 40 it really pays to wear your glasses when reading the fine print about the design of your automobile. I am really dreading those 100-0mph stops here in the USA. And another thing this low standard/quality Pontiac crap has got to go! I am switching to a high quality import as soon as possible. Jeez!!!

When I started this thread I was just pointing out what my friend at Mercedes was stating. He wasn't thinking the GXP wasn't made for European roads. Afterall, the vehicle was here in Germany, registered, and permitted to drive. This car isn't for sale as is here in Germany to Germans as far as I know. However, my car did go through a German TüV inspection (which is very tough) and passed with no problem. I was able to bring it over here on military and diplomatic orders. He understood that American cars are not designed for the autobahn but also mentioned that since the GXP was the top of the line Pontiac sedan it should have been comparable to other higher end models for European cars. Remember, he was comparing it to Mercedes upper class sedans that he routinely works on. These cars run $65,000-$90,000 and more! He was amazed when I told him what my car cost. For $70,000 I'm sure Pontiac would have done some radical changes too. Look at the Viper. Those brakes would probably smoke anything the Germans have. I am happy with my car over here. I love it and from the looks I always get, a lot of others do too. Parking can be tough at times and the brake dust and squeaking is a nuisance but as I stated before, I can live with that. If performance mods were available and I put another $10,000 in it, I'm sure this car could be a serious autobahn cruiser. Even with the 3.71 gears, I have had it to 142 mph already and it was pretty smooth I must say. Having an American V8 sedan in the heart of Germany is a real pleasure and I will enjoy it till I leave in a year. I have yet to see another GXP anywhere over here.

One of the many joys of being a GXP owner is that you don't see many regardless of your location! I live in central Florida, Daytona - Orlando, and have only seen one in the past six months that wasn't at the dealership. It is a head turner and a fantastic highway cruiser!

I would say that I am very impressed with the brakes on the GXP. In the past 10 months that I have owned the car, I have seen 1 other GXP on the road and 1 in a dealer'* lot! They are VERY rare in Ontario. One time I was driving with some of my buddies and I missed a turn. The guy yells out, "turn there!" I layed on the binders with moderate pressure (to me anyway) and they were jolted like crazy. This car has great brakes. I drove a Grand Prix GTP Comp G the other day the Bonne GXP is a lot strong and has better pedal feel. The fastest I usually go on a normal drive is about 130km/h. Anything crazy is around 150km/h to me. And at those speeds I don't usually need to lay on the brakes that hard. I'm just so pleased with the car. I'm glad you are enjoying it in Germany obis88. I just wish pontiacs reputation would change in the eyes of the public. They are pumping out the nices cars ever and nobody seems to notice. By far the GTO is the best. If they offered it in Canada, I'd have one. I test drove one in the states and it is fabulous. The interior just gets my goat (no pun intended).

Anyway I went off topic there...in conclusion, the brakes on the GXP are quite adequate and truly slow down that big car quite quickly. Fade has never been a problem to me since I don't usually drive that agressively.