Adding the tweeter on an SE..... one wire pair.
03-28-2006, 04:01 PM
#1
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Adding the tweeter on an SE..... one wire pair.
OK. It'* a good day. I learned how to remove a door panel withoutr breaking anything. I want to add a stock tweeter to my SE for now.
I was expecting to find two pairs of wires in the door based on info searched here. There ain't. i have accounted for every wire coming to the door. So this is what I have.
- 1 pair of wires
- 1 "full range" 5 1/4 with plug for straight into the amp wires
- 1 tweeter with what looks like some capacitance, which I hope is a high pass filter.
Is there any reason I shouldn't get a splitter type plug (if they exist) and put it on the wire pair.... or just splice off of the wire pair and jump it to the tweeter?
It would seem to me to be OK. I might get a frequency hump in the ranges duplicated, but WTH.
I was expecting to find two pairs of wires in the door based on info searched here. There ain't. i have accounted for every wire coming to the door. So this is what I have.
- 1 pair of wires
- 1 "full range" 5 1/4 with plug for straight into the amp wires
- 1 tweeter with what looks like some capacitance, which I hope is a high pass filter.
Is there any reason I shouldn't get a splitter type plug (if they exist) and put it on the wire pair.... or just splice off of the wire pair and jump it to the tweeter?
It would seem to me to be OK. I might get a frequency hump in the ranges duplicated, but WTH.
03-28-2006, 04:11 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
On the cars without the Gain feature, like in your 95... I believe that you are correct... The tweeters I installed came out of a Bonnie , both the tweeter and the speaker were connected to the single circuit, so that resistor must be a high pass filter... For the size and poor location they sure do improve the sound quality...
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
03-28-2006, 04:15 PM
#3
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester, NY (college)
Posts: 6,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there is only 1 pair of wires(1+ & 1-) going into the door pannel, you are correct on that. there should be a connection on the 5.25 to attach a tweeter. if not solder it in to the 5.25 wires. all the filters for the tweeter should be mounted to the back of the tweeter.
03-28-2006, 04:49 PM
#4
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jr's3800
(snip), both the tweeter and the speaker were connected to the single circuit, so that resistor must be a high pass filter... For the size and poor location they sure do improve the sound quality...
Originally Posted by corvettecrazy
(snip), if not solder it in to the 5.25 wires. all the filters for the tweeter should be mounted to the back of the tweeter...
The 5 1/4 has zip on it to connect the tweeter, so I'll just splice off of the wire pair. Thanks.
03-28-2006, 07:53 PM
#5
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
we discussed this earlier because i wanted to do the same thing, which was add some full range 5 1/4"* to my stock tweeters........
your ohm load will get smaller if you attach a tweeter to the full range 5 1/4"*.......which is not good for the amplifier...on the stock bonneville audio system, the 5 1/4" was a woofer with a filter on it sending the lows to the woofer and the highs to the tweeter, and the tweeter has a filter on it to filter out any lows......this way, two speakers with a 4 ohm load will still be 4 ohms because one set of frequencies is going to the woofer, and the other is going to the tweeter
i guess you can try it, but it may mess with the ohm load to your amplifer
your ohm load will get smaller if you attach a tweeter to the full range 5 1/4"*.......which is not good for the amplifier...on the stock bonneville audio system, the 5 1/4" was a woofer with a filter on it sending the lows to the woofer and the highs to the tweeter, and the tweeter has a filter on it to filter out any lows......this way, two speakers with a 4 ohm load will still be 4 ohms because one set of frequencies is going to the woofer, and the other is going to the tweeter
i guess you can try it, but it may mess with the ohm load to your amplifer
03-28-2006, 08:24 PM
#6
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester, NY (college)
Posts: 6,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
in the end, if he wires it by just tapping into the wires that go to the 5.25, you are still presenting a 4ohm load to the amplifier. But the tweeter may "take" some wattage away from the 5.25 which is not a big deal because less wattage = less bass = longer life of speakers.
03-28-2006, 08:28 PM
#7
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry i was just going from this in my thread
Oh man. Sorry to barge in here, but you need a quick lesson on crossovers.
The black thing on your tweeter is a capacitor. A capacitor is two metal plates separated by a gap such that electric charge will build up on the plates. You can't pass DC current from a multimeter through a capacitor because it is physically an air gap and air is, well, a lousy conductor. But audio is not DC, it is AC, and the varying charge on the plates will pass high frequency AC current, but block low frequency AC current (think of DC as Zero Hertz AC), which makes them ideal for use as a "bass blocker" in a speaker crossover. The gray thing is a resistor to lower the overall power through the tweeter to match its output to the 5.25" larger speaker so the two don't sound like "all tweeter". Because the factory tweeter is matched to the factory 5.25" speaker, it might be a bad match for an aftermarket 5.25" full range speaker.
In a properly designed 2-way crossover, there are capacitors that block lows from the tweeter, and there are inductors (coils of insulated wire) to block highs from the woofer. When used properly, an 8 ohm tweeter and an 8 ohm woofer separated by a crossover will appear as a uniform 8 ohm load to your amplifier so your total impedance will remain unaffected.
If you don't use a crossover network, then an 8 ohm tweeter paralleled with an 8 ohm woofer will appear as a 4 ohm load to an amplifier, demanding twice as much current, which your amplifier either can or cannot provide. If it cannot, then if you're lucky it engages a protection circuit. If you're not lucky, then it catches on fire. (Really!)
If you use a random aftermarket 5.25" speaker that has both a woofer and a co-axially mounted tweeter on it, then also connecting the factory tweeter will probably give you sound that has too much tweeter high-end and add phase distortions between the two tweeters. A much more ideal setup is to buy component separates (A prepackaged matched 5.25" woofer with a separate tweeter, and a crossover to connect the two). But these are a lot more expensive than just a good 5.25" co-axially mounted woofer+tweeter combo.
My advice is to either:
(1) Stick with factory speakers and make no other changes.
(2) Go all out and get a set of matched component separates.
(3) Find a 5.25" woofer, and buy a quality 2-way crossover from an autosound dealer to connect the woofer and factory tweeter.
(4) Get a good reasonably-priced 5.25" two-way, use that and leave the factory tweeter disconnected.
maybe i'm just makin a fool out of myself, but if he taps into that, it should go as parallel
Originally Posted by Bugsi
Originally Posted by 96bonniessei
i think i know what happened to my tweeter..........that black thing on the back of them, would not let a current through it when i used a multimeter.............but it would let a current through the gray thing.......so that'* pry what happened to the tweeter <SNIP>
and it should not mess with the impedance correct? my impedance will be fine for the radio to handle?
and it should not mess with the impedance correct? my impedance will be fine for the radio to handle?
The black thing on your tweeter is a capacitor. A capacitor is two metal plates separated by a gap such that electric charge will build up on the plates. You can't pass DC current from a multimeter through a capacitor because it is physically an air gap and air is, well, a lousy conductor. But audio is not DC, it is AC, and the varying charge on the plates will pass high frequency AC current, but block low frequency AC current (think of DC as Zero Hertz AC), which makes them ideal for use as a "bass blocker" in a speaker crossover. The gray thing is a resistor to lower the overall power through the tweeter to match its output to the 5.25" larger speaker so the two don't sound like "all tweeter". Because the factory tweeter is matched to the factory 5.25" speaker, it might be a bad match for an aftermarket 5.25" full range speaker.
In a properly designed 2-way crossover, there are capacitors that block lows from the tweeter, and there are inductors (coils of insulated wire) to block highs from the woofer. When used properly, an 8 ohm tweeter and an 8 ohm woofer separated by a crossover will appear as a uniform 8 ohm load to your amplifier so your total impedance will remain unaffected.
If you don't use a crossover network, then an 8 ohm tweeter paralleled with an 8 ohm woofer will appear as a 4 ohm load to an amplifier, demanding twice as much current, which your amplifier either can or cannot provide. If it cannot, then if you're lucky it engages a protection circuit. If you're not lucky, then it catches on fire. (Really!)
If you use a random aftermarket 5.25" speaker that has both a woofer and a co-axially mounted tweeter on it, then also connecting the factory tweeter will probably give you sound that has too much tweeter high-end and add phase distortions between the two tweeters. A much more ideal setup is to buy component separates (A prepackaged matched 5.25" woofer with a separate tweeter, and a crossover to connect the two). But these are a lot more expensive than just a good 5.25" co-axially mounted woofer+tweeter combo.
My advice is to either:
(1) Stick with factory speakers and make no other changes.
(2) Go all out and get a set of matched component separates.
(3) Find a 5.25" woofer, and buy a quality 2-way crossover from an autosound dealer to connect the woofer and factory tweeter.
(4) Get a good reasonably-priced 5.25" two-way, use that and leave the factory tweeter disconnected.
maybe i'm just makin a fool out of myself, but if he taps into that, it should go as parallel
03-28-2006, 10:37 PM
#8
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only got time to do one side, darkness thing.
Frankly, i don't know for sure what the impedance is if you splice off the line. I've never done it before today. I know if you run 2 leads off of the amplifier taps, to 2 speakers (parallel) you @half the nominal impedance. If you run the speakers in series...., 1 run to the first speaker then directly run from the speaker taps, to the second speaker... you actually @double the nominal impedance.
This isn't good science, but I did an A/B with the left and right channels at medium high volume. There'* no verifiable SPL difference at all. The new side sounds richer, the old side sounds thinner and edgier. I don't know what the amp is seeing, but it didn't ignite or combust with Pink Floyd. All I am sure of is that the stock rear deck speakers still suck. I'm waiting for a replacement on some Infinitys, one was DOA.
Another thing.... it has been stated in more than one thread here that the two wire sets per door are just one line spliced (510 circuit, I think). I never followed to confirm or deny that.
So all in all, not a world beater like good components, but d*mned good value at salvage yard prices and a couple hours of work.
Thanks for the help, and I'll be sure to get back to you if i melt the amp.
Frankly, i don't know for sure what the impedance is if you splice off the line. I've never done it before today. I know if you run 2 leads off of the amplifier taps, to 2 speakers (parallel) you @half the nominal impedance. If you run the speakers in series...., 1 run to the first speaker then directly run from the speaker taps, to the second speaker... you actually @double the nominal impedance.
This isn't good science, but I did an A/B with the left and right channels at medium high volume. There'* no verifiable SPL difference at all. The new side sounds richer, the old side sounds thinner and edgier. I don't know what the amp is seeing, but it didn't ignite or combust with Pink Floyd. All I am sure of is that the stock rear deck speakers still suck. I'm waiting for a replacement on some Infinitys, one was DOA.
Another thing.... it has been stated in more than one thread here that the two wire sets per door are just one line spliced (510 circuit, I think). I never followed to confirm or deny that.
So all in all, not a world beater like good components, but d*mned good value at salvage yard prices and a couple hours of work.
Thanks for the help, and I'll be sure to get back to you if i melt the amp.
04-05-2006, 04:15 AM
#9
Senior Member
Posts like a Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The parallel impedance calculator is for connecting speakers without a crossover. Your tweeter had a crossover, so the impedance being cut in half just isn't going to happen. If you connected two identical full range speakers in parallel without a crossover, then yes, the combined parallel impedance would be cut in half. But that isn't what you're doing at all, so you really just do not need to worry about this. You're good to go.
04-05-2006, 06:38 PM
#10
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol damnit bugsi
thats exactly what i wanted to do a few weeks ago, but you told me i shouldnt add the tweeter to a full range speaker because it would mess with my ohm load
maybe i might go back to this then
thats exactly what i wanted to do a few weeks ago, but you told me i shouldnt add the tweeter to a full range speaker because it would mess with my ohm load
maybe i might go back to this then