Stant radiator cap Why?
06-03-2004, 01:47 AM
#12
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hi
here are just a few of these civil suits.
while most dont mention the 3800 by name, one would have to be foolish to think that somehow.... "our" drivetrains arent involved.
http://www.cwcd.com/CM/MassTorts/MassTorts5.asp
http://www.geocities.com/b_gillie/de...problems3.html
http://www.wkrc.com/heyhoward/story....F-84250675D214
http://www.bigclassaction.com/class_action/dexcool.html
http://www.noln.net/features/feature3.html
http://www.wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/.../20299ce7.html
and this is from the attorneys handling this particular case:
http://www.dexcoolcase.com/
http://classlaw.info/
http://lawssb.com/currentcases/dexcool.html
http://www.wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/.../20299ce7.html
an interesting blurb on 3800'*
http://groups.msn.com/GMConsumers/ge...74106332322574
this is what can happen if these types of problems are ignored.
http://groups.msn.com/GMConsumers/ge...29897658832818
Cars made prior to 1995, using green, are not faced with these same dire results. I noticed that both your car and his are over a decade old...so are not involved.
However, any one owning a car that has dex in it...who neglects to maintain the level in the bottle, and fails to check the radiator cap for reddish matter on the sealing surface....does so at ones own peril.
Considering that a flush and new Stant are much cheaper than an engine, the course of action should be clear.
here are just a few of these civil suits.
while most dont mention the 3800 by name, one would have to be foolish to think that somehow.... "our" drivetrains arent involved.
http://www.cwcd.com/CM/MassTorts/MassTorts5.asp
http://www.geocities.com/b_gillie/de...problems3.html
http://www.wkrc.com/heyhoward/story....F-84250675D214
http://www.bigclassaction.com/class_action/dexcool.html
http://www.noln.net/features/feature3.html
http://www.wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/.../20299ce7.html
and this is from the attorneys handling this particular case:
http://www.dexcoolcase.com/
http://classlaw.info/
http://lawssb.com/currentcases/dexcool.html
http://www.wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/.../20299ce7.html
an interesting blurb on 3800'*
http://groups.msn.com/GMConsumers/ge...74106332322574
this is what can happen if these types of problems are ignored.
http://groups.msn.com/GMConsumers/ge...29897658832818
Cars made prior to 1995, using green, are not faced with these same dire results. I noticed that both your car and his are over a decade old...so are not involved.
However, any one owning a car that has dex in it...who neglects to maintain the level in the bottle, and fails to check the radiator cap for reddish matter on the sealing surface....does so at ones own peril.
Considering that a flush and new Stant are much cheaper than an engine, the course of action should be clear.
06-03-2004, 02:40 AM
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However, any one owning a car that has dex in it...who neglects to maintain the level in the bottle, and fails to check the radiator cap for reddish matter on the sealing surface....does so at ones own peril.
All of the class action suits mentioned are in combination of other problems and none of them mention getting a stant cap to correct the problem?
06-03-2004, 06:57 AM
#14
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3 core 5 core?
3 core 5 core I don't know what you mean. I have a small radiator in front of my regular one, I believe it to be the trans cooler. Are you saying install a second trans cooler?
06-03-2004, 08:13 AM
#15
Originally Posted by lght1
Hi
For those running dexcool, changing to a spring type design could make a great deal of difference.
The additional downward pressure of a spring, ensures additional sealing integrity over the oem weighted type cap. This additional protection can help keep out air which can bypass the recovery bottle and invade the system.
Once there is air in a dex system, the anti corrosion protection is inhibited. Air, for the "green" type, beyond the basic cooling issues of "hot spots", doesnt effect the anti corrosion inhibitors to the same degree as it uses silicates and "plates" all the surfaces. These "long life" types, need constant contact to maintain the protection. This is where the problem begins.
Essentially, there are two ways air enters the system.
1. the recovery bottle is ALLOWED to get low, and the system sucks air in through the vacume produced as the engine cools.
2. through the radiator cap. often in a dex system, one will find debris, which in itself may be harmless, or a sign of massive corrosion in the system migrating to the outside world. This debris will often form on the sealing surface of the cap..and through the magic of time, is breached and is no longer effective.
If you have a dex system, check the radiator cap sealing surface for corrosion. If it is present, you have some choices to make.
1. ignore it, and take your chances.
2. flush the system completely and thoroughly and either fill with another long life coolant (G-O5 comes to mind) or switch to Prestone "Green" which will put you back to 2-3 year flushes, but most likely you will be doing that with "long life" anyways.
And then...REPLACE that weighted oem type cap with a spring STANT to gain additional security.
Finally....MAiINTAIN the level in the bottle at ALL times. I've heard that the general is now suggesting that the level be maintained cold at the HOT level...for further security.
A good read on radiator caps and long life coolant.
http://www.coolprofits.com/articles/...ohnbrunner.htm
this is a nice link, as you can see the corrosion on the radiator cap up close and personal. Nasty stuff.
http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/082002_04.pdf
For those running dexcool, changing to a spring type design could make a great deal of difference.
The additional downward pressure of a spring, ensures additional sealing integrity over the oem weighted type cap. This additional protection can help keep out air which can bypass the recovery bottle and invade the system.
Once there is air in a dex system, the anti corrosion protection is inhibited. Air, for the "green" type, beyond the basic cooling issues of "hot spots", doesnt effect the anti corrosion inhibitors to the same degree as it uses silicates and "plates" all the surfaces. These "long life" types, need constant contact to maintain the protection. This is where the problem begins.
Essentially, there are two ways air enters the system.
1. the recovery bottle is ALLOWED to get low, and the system sucks air in through the vacume produced as the engine cools.
2. through the radiator cap. often in a dex system, one will find debris, which in itself may be harmless, or a sign of massive corrosion in the system migrating to the outside world. This debris will often form on the sealing surface of the cap..and through the magic of time, is breached and is no longer effective.
If you have a dex system, check the radiator cap sealing surface for corrosion. If it is present, you have some choices to make.
1. ignore it, and take your chances.
2. flush the system completely and thoroughly and either fill with another long life coolant (G-O5 comes to mind) or switch to Prestone "Green" which will put you back to 2-3 year flushes, but most likely you will be doing that with "long life" anyways.
And then...REPLACE that weighted oem type cap with a spring STANT to gain additional security.
Finally....MAiINTAIN the level in the bottle at ALL times. I've heard that the general is now suggesting that the level be maintained cold at the HOT level...for further security.
A good read on radiator caps and long life coolant.
http://www.coolprofits.com/articles/...ohnbrunner.htm
this is a nice link, as you can see the corrosion on the radiator cap up close and personal. Nasty stuff.
http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/082002_04.pdf
06-03-2004, 09:45 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by PontiacDad
However, any one owning a car that has dex in it...who neglects to maintain the level in the bottle, and fails to check the radiator cap for reddish matter on the sealing surface....does so at ones own peril.
All of the class action suits mentioned are in combination of other problems and none of them mention getting a stant cap to correct the problem?
If you're going to do this so you don't have to check your fluid level in the recovery tank, then go ahead, but anyone with a Series II NA that DOESN'T check that fluid regularly is in for some surprises of a more serious nature down the road.
06-03-2004, 10:32 AM
#17
I do not have the Stant cap installed as a replacement for not checking the coolant level. I meticously maintain all my vehicles and if I see a product on the market that will potentially save me lots of time and money and I believe in it (i.e., Stant cap), then I'll buy it. The same arguements could be said regarding many of the modifications that other members have made to their 3800s. It all comes down to personal preference...
That my $.02!!
That my $.02!!
06-03-2004, 10:40 AM
#18
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hi
Switching from dex to green, provided it is flushed completely, is acceptable. However, going the other way is not recommended because the OAT coolant will have a negative impact on the type of solder used. If you havent had an issue in six years, you have been very lucky, but it most likely is just a matter of time.
As far as the Stant spring type goes, since general often uses "pellet type" sealants in the system which can form debris just as corrosion in a dex system can, and that this very same debris can impact the sealing surface in a weighted type to the degree that it no longer seals and lets air in, than the OEM weighted type should be replaced with a cap of superior sealing characteristics.
The Stant has a high tension spring which is recommended by radiator specialists as extra insurance against this. So, although the oem cap may or maynot be the cause of the air in the system, it can contribute to the catastrophe and should be replaced.
This is from a website devoted to cooling specialists. There is some very valuable reading here which can potentially save people some considerable amounts of money if you heed their advice.
http://www.coolprofits.com/
http://www.coolprofits.com/articles/...ohnbrunner.htm
For what a radiator cap costs, and how vital it is to our machines, isnt it worth taking a look once in awhile, and maybe spending ten dollars on to possibly save many hundreds?
http://www.stant.com/part_locator/index.cfm
http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/082002_04.pdf
http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/
One can be very careful in putting the hood up every day and checking the bottle, even adding coolant as needed....and STILL have the air problem because you didnt check the cap'* sealing surface for debris and replace accordingly.
In my book, this is a little more important than painting one'* plastic engine cover..lol
BTW, I just noticed that in the six years JR, you have had two water pumps. I would check the Ph of the dex immediately, and almost certainly flush and refill asap.
Also, topping off with green in a dex system doesnt create "sludge", it merely compromises the OAT'* long life . However, AIR does cause sludge....which really is corrosion.
If you want "long life" type coolant in an older car....DO NOT use a OAT type coolant, but rather a HOAT ( hybred organic acid technology ) type coolant such as G-O5 ( sold as Zerex) which is a better choice.
Switching from dex to green, provided it is flushed completely, is acceptable. However, going the other way is not recommended because the OAT coolant will have a negative impact on the type of solder used. If you havent had an issue in six years, you have been very lucky, but it most likely is just a matter of time.
As far as the Stant spring type goes, since general often uses "pellet type" sealants in the system which can form debris just as corrosion in a dex system can, and that this very same debris can impact the sealing surface in a weighted type to the degree that it no longer seals and lets air in, than the OEM weighted type should be replaced with a cap of superior sealing characteristics.
The Stant has a high tension spring which is recommended by radiator specialists as extra insurance against this. So, although the oem cap may or maynot be the cause of the air in the system, it can contribute to the catastrophe and should be replaced.
This is from a website devoted to cooling specialists. There is some very valuable reading here which can potentially save people some considerable amounts of money if you heed their advice.
http://www.coolprofits.com/
http://www.coolprofits.com/articles/...ohnbrunner.htm
For what a radiator cap costs, and how vital it is to our machines, isnt it worth taking a look once in awhile, and maybe spending ten dollars on to possibly save many hundreds?
http://www.stant.com/part_locator/index.cfm
http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/082002_04.pdf
http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/
One can be very careful in putting the hood up every day and checking the bottle, even adding coolant as needed....and STILL have the air problem because you didnt check the cap'* sealing surface for debris and replace accordingly.
In my book, this is a little more important than painting one'* plastic engine cover..lol
BTW, I just noticed that in the six years JR, you have had two water pumps. I would check the Ph of the dex immediately, and almost certainly flush and refill asap.
Also, topping off with green in a dex system doesnt create "sludge", it merely compromises the OAT'* long life . However, AIR does cause sludge....which really is corrosion.
If you want "long life" type coolant in an older car....DO NOT use a OAT type coolant, but rather a HOAT ( hybred organic acid technology ) type coolant such as G-O5 ( sold as Zerex) which is a better choice.
06-03-2004, 10:52 AM
#19
In my book, this is a little more important than painting one'* plastic engine cover..lol
The same arguements could be said regarding many of the modifications that other members have made to their 3800s. It all comes down to personal preference...