Hello all.

I know this topic has been covered before, many times, but I just wanted to document the problem and relate what I did/will do to fix it.

This has been going on for several months. I have had to tow it home twice. The car will just kill/stall/stop running, both while driving or at idle. Then it won't start. It will turn over, i.e. the starter is turning, but it won't start. This has happened at 40 mph, 75mph, at a stop sign, while making a "coasting" left turn through a light. Sometimes it will start right back up, somtimes I have to wait an hour or so, sometimes a day or so. It also seems that once it starts doing this, it won't work till I fix/change/dwiddle with it. It is also hard to diagnose since it is so intermittent.

I am very familiar with the posts on this website, along with Deja/Google, along with Yahoo Groups, ... but I haven't seen any concrete solution to this problem; i.e. fuel pump, ignition module, crank sensor, ground, VATS, ... I hope that by chronicling my attempts I can help somone else, or get some additional ideas from some of you, and to hopefully get some direction or help from you guys.

As I said earlier the car just dies and won't start again for some time. No warning lights, no Security Warning, and no ECM/PCM codes. The only common I can find is that this happens immediately following a "coasting" decellaration; i.e. stopping for red-light or letting off the accelerator on the highway.

I plan to try all of the possible solutions I have come across. And post the results here.

Things I Have Already Done:
1) Changed the Positive Battery cable connector since it seemed loose and corroded.
2) Replaced the Crank Position Sensor TWICE!
3) Sealed the Crank Position Sensor Connector with RTV
4) Checked for ECM codes; none.

Now the battery cable did help a little, i.e. the car ran ok for about a week. When I changed the Crank Position Sensor the first time I noticed oil seeped into the connector. When the car died a week later, I pulled the sensor again, more oil, cleaned it and the sealed the connector with RTV; i.e. around the pretty blue grommet and on the outside. Lasted about a month. This last time I got hold of a Scantool but no codes were present;i.e. current or history.

Maybe you guys might know about this. But I have noticed I have a persistent oil leak on the bottom of the engine and in the past the Crank Position Sensor has been covered with oil/grime. Now that the connector is clean and protected, what if the sensor itself is coated with a thin film of oil? SInce it is a Hall-Effect sensor, could oil foul up the reading and cause the car to shut down????????

Thing to Be Done:
1) Replace the Negative Battery cable terminal.
2) Check grounding points; i.e .corrosion, good contact
3) Test ignition Module at Autozone
4) Test/Verify sensor connections/wires. Especially Ignition Module ground strap
5) Relays...
6) Check out the VATS system for correct operation
7) Fuel Regulator
Fuel Lines
9) Fuel Filter
10) Fuel Pump/Gas Tank Pickup
11) Check/Test Fuel Pressure (dependent on repeating problem)
12) Test/Check Ignition spark present (dependent on repeating problem)

I would appreciate any advice on the 12 items on my to do list. I am going to try to diagnose/test these components before replacing them.

I will update this thread as soon as I have any information

Thanks for your help in advance and congrats on a great web site.

Later

Thanks for the input.

When you say "module" are you referring to the Crank Position Sensor, the PCM module, or the Ignition Module????

later.

Just shuts off. I is just like someone turned off the enigne with the key.

I usually don't notice it unitl I press the gas, i.e. at stop, radio on, or when the sterring tightens up, i.e. when moving.

Later.

Two things I would do, when it happens, (were gonna assume the ECM is not lieing to you by not setting any codes ....yet) and check for a spark when it dies again. Make sure you have no fuel leaks, and use a spare plug that you know is good. To get it to do it again, leave it running in the driveway, go back and forth if needed ( I dont think you want to get it towed again). When/if it dies, test for a spark, if you get none, get the Ignition module checked, when they start going, they act funny with heat, "real funny". When you have them check it, have them do it about 3 times, so it will get warm. Next, (if you do have spark) I would check fuel pressure, a good indicator is if it doesnt get to 40psi, and hold there. Two things the ECM does not control is the fuel pressure, and secondary ignition. If you have pressure, and it holds, I would start suspecting the ECM is malfunctioning. My .02

Ok, its been a while, been sick and family, ..., but I am back at getting my 95 bonny working. This weekend I removed the ignition module and had it tested at Orielly'*, Autozone didn't have the connector. Tested it four times and the module checked out ok.

Now my battery went dead while the car sat in the garage. The guy at Walmart replaced the battery for free, another story, and told me to check the alternator. I nodded my head and said I would but knew I wouldn't. Anyway, I later thought what the heck it is easy to remove. Damn, the alternator was indeed bad. It was the original one that came with the car; AC-Delco unit.

I am going to put the new alternator and battery back in along with the igniiton module tonight and see what happens.

I am going to check out my connections as well; tail lights, u-haul tow connector, battery negitive terminal, starter negative terminal, and the bulk-head negative connector.

WIll see what happens and post my results later.

Okay, got he new alternator and battery back in the care. Also, replace the negative batter bolt with a new one with a hex head so I can use a ratchet to tightent it.

All went well and the car started on the first crank. Pretty good since it has been sitting in the garage for over three months.

I let it idle for a while to warm up. Then the tail-lamp warning came on. I checked the rear of the car and all are working.

This had been happening previously but I thought it was a bad bulb. All the bulbs are fine.

I read somewhere that when there is a short or a bad ground connection the bulbs work but the "burnt bulb" warning comes on.

I disconnected the battery to prevent it from discharging. I will start troublshooting the short/ground tomorrow night.

Oh yeah, before connecting the battery I put an amp meter between the battery and the negative cable and it registered .02 amps. That seems odd but I will check it out further tomorrow night.

More to come.

lemme quess...
stalls on right hand decelleration turns... I'm getting the same thing, you dont even know the engines not running till you push the go pedel... What I have done is reconnected my vacuum lines/ changed spark plug wires. I'm doing fuel filter asap. The problem I'm getting is:
A) somtimes stubbles(can stall) on HARD(WOT) accell when the engine is fully warmed up.
B) somtimes stalls on decelleration turns.
C) somtimes takes feathering the gas pedel* to start when COLD(morning)
*If you've owned a car with a carb. you know what this means.

All of my signs are pointing at the fuel system (filter/regulator/pump). if it where electical I'm sure I would be getting codes, and SES lights.

How do I go about testing my injectors for 40lbs?

Maybe we can work this out together...

Does really romping on the gas pedel affect the stalling on your car? After I do a hard accel, then make a turn I can find Myself off to the corner of the road with my hazerds on

Both license plate lights are on the taillight circuit. Check both. If one isn't out, remove and clean all the bulb bases and sockets, then put them back in with dielectric grease. I can almost gaurantee one of these will solve the taillight problem. Pulling .02 amps with everything off is normal. The cars electronics have a constant draw.

Your alternator could very well have been the root of the stalling issue.

Hey willwren and 1992 trofeo thanks for responding to this old thread.

I agree with ya trofeo, I had at least two occasions where acceleration folllowed by a sweeping wide turn with deceleration, i.e. hurrying up to catch theleft turn arrow, resulted in a stall. However, mine was momentary then the car "caught up" with itself. I haven't had a situation where a turn has caused a complete shutdown, only momentary stoppage.

When I have had a complete shutdown has occured when simply decelerating for a traffic light, sitting still at a traffic light, and coasting at 70 m.p.h. on a tollway, scary since I had a taco in one hand, a pepsi in the other and driving with my left knee. I know, I know mom that is dangerous.

Now when mine does die, it seems to die for a good while, like hours or days. I really think I am chasing multiple things. My current assesment is that it has been a combination of three things, 1) bad crank sensor, 2) bad alternator, and 3) that intermittent tail lamp warining.

Now I have changed the crank sensor twice and it has helped. Last time I coated the connetor with RTV due to a lot of oil in that area. This weekend I changed the battery and alternator. I am lucky, the alternator was the original one that came with the car. Eight years isn't bad actually. Finally, I checked the wiring and rear bulbs last night. Wiring all seems ok. Ground points clean and connected. Intensity of the light seems good. No fluctuations with turn signals, brake pressed, or headlights. Although the ground point in the back seems a lil skimpy; lil black wire with lil screw. The only thing I found with the bulbs was one brake bulb/socket a lil corroded and many of the bulbs lead contact deformed; i.e. flattened. Seems kinda funny these would be flattend. Anyway I plan on going to Walmart and get an entire set of new bulbs to replace all of them, even the lil 194'*.

My new strategy is to trace down the tail lamp warning. I swear that on two occasions that one of the license plate lights was out and when I moved the wire it went on. I will check under the car tonight and try to see if there is any thing I missed. Next I will remove all of the plastic "conduit" covering the wires to see if any of them are frayed or touching. If all else fails I may remove the license plate lights completely to see if that solves it. After that I am not sure what else to do. Maybe will try to get a scanner and see if there are any codes pertaining to the tail lamp warning or troublesh00t the Twilight Sentinel and Light Control Module ( I think that is the right term).

In the past I haven't been able to track down the stalling/dieing problem to either the fuel or the ignition. I have concentrated on the ignition up until now. I plan to run the car a lot while it is in my garage to see if I can get it to act up again. If it does I will be ready this time with a scanner. I will also determine if it is a spark or fuel problem.

The fuel proplem will require a fuel pressur gauage. I think Autozone or Orielly'* lends them out. If it is fuel related I will change the Fuel Pump Relay, ony about $5 bucks, the fuel regulator, $60 bucks, fuel filter, and finally if all else failse the fuel pump.

I reall think I have solved 2/3 of my problem, i.e. crank sensor and alternator. I think the current tail-lamp warning is ground or short related. If anyone has any suggestions on tracking down a short or ground please let me know. For instance, should I check voltage at the bulb socket locations, measure current draw, measure resistance .... any help will be appreciated.

Later.

Starting to sound completly different from my problem.
To check your lights get a multi-metre, and you'll be fine. I'm going along the same lines with the fuel system, but i'll be doing the filter tomorrow, then relay, then regulator, and if that doesnt do it i will then do the pump..