Interesting News on my Intake work
#1
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Interesting News on my Intake work
Well my buddy who is a Buick tech for the last 20+ years just called to let me know the car is all ready. He did the lower intake gaskets, upper gaskets and valve cover gaskets, along with a new set of front pads and rotors. Took him 3.5hrs and I payed him $150.
He did not use the Ken-Co kit on my car because it already had the revised lower manifold with the smaller EGR tube in it. I don't know if the manifold is original or if it was replaced before I bought the car. If it was original that means that GM made the lower manifold change sometime in 99. My upper manifold was obviously fine plus it was a Delphi unit as well.
So now I guess I need to sell my Ken-Co kit to someone on this site.
He did not use the Ken-Co kit on my car because it already had the revised lower manifold with the smaller EGR tube in it. I don't know if the manifold is original or if it was replaced before I bought the car. If it was original that means that GM made the lower manifold change sometime in 99. My upper manifold was obviously fine plus it was a Delphi unit as well.
So now I guess I need to sell my Ken-Co kit to someone on this site.
#2
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Some here have said the manifold change came through in '99. My car was manufactured in July of '99 (must have been right before shutdown for retooling the model change) and has had 105K trouble-free miles, with the exception of changing a throttle body gasket.
Others here haven't been so lucky. Damned shame they don't sell the small O.D. EGR transport tube as a separate item.
Others here haven't been so lucky. Damned shame they don't sell the small O.D. EGR transport tube as a separate item.
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So could I just order a new lower for my car to fix this problem instead of the Ken-Co kit and have it over with? If so can I get a part number...a part number on the upper would be nice too.
#4
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True Car Nut
As I understand it, GM'* "fix" in '99 was to reduce the diameter of the EGR pipe from 3/4" to 5/8", thus providing an air gap between the hot pipe and the plastic upper manifold. (The bore of the manifold remains at 3/4".) If that really does fix the problem then all you need to do is install a reduced diameter pipe in your lower intake and you have the same thing as a '99 LIM. Maybe they changed something else on the manifold, but if so, I have yet to hear about it.
It might be a good idea to find out how many failures of 99+ manifolds there have been. I was talking to my buddy Dan, an ASE mechanic who worked for a Pontiac dealer and now works in an independent garage. He says that he has changed 99+ uppers that failed by burn-through same as the older ones. I don't know if it is less likely, or if you get more miles than the '95-98, but they DO fail.
I still think the best insurance is to use a 5/8" pipe AND a 7/8" sleeve- or the KenCo kit.
It might be a good idea to find out how many failures of 99+ manifolds there have been. I was talking to my buddy Dan, an ASE mechanic who worked for a Pontiac dealer and now works in an independent garage. He says that he has changed 99+ uppers that failed by burn-through same as the older ones. I don't know if it is less likely, or if you get more miles than the '95-98, but they DO fail.
I still think the best insurance is to use a 5/8" pipe AND a 7/8" sleeve- or the KenCo kit.
#5
Bill,
Did he say if any or all of the 99+ models that failed had the reduced diameter stove pipe? It would be interesting to know. I think the TSB that GM issed recommending replacing the lower and upper manifold for coolant consumption problems was dated July of '01. Makes me wonder when they put the new lower manifold on the production line. I think the sleeve in the upper is a great idea. I have a question in my own mind on how the heat transfer from the metal to the surrounding plastic is going to affect things, if at all. I am convinced that it can't make it any worse.
Did he say if any or all of the 99+ models that failed had the reduced diameter stove pipe? It would be interesting to know. I think the TSB that GM issed recommending replacing the lower and upper manifold for coolant consumption problems was dated July of '01. Makes me wonder when they put the new lower manifold on the production line. I think the sleeve in the upper is a great idea. I have a question in my own mind on how the heat transfer from the metal to the surrounding plastic is going to affect things, if at all. I am convinced that it can't make it any worse.
#6
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True Car Nut
Re: Interesting News on my Intake work
Originally Posted by gmtorque
My upper manifold was obviously fine plus it was a Delphi unit as well.
So now I guess I need to sell my Ken-Co kit to someone on this site.
So now I guess I need to sell my Ken-Co kit to someone on this site.
#7
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Originally Posted by RedGhost
Bill,
Did he say if any or all of the 99+ models that failed had the reduced diameter stove pipe? It would be interesting to know. I think the TSB that GM issued recommending replacing the lower and upper manifold for coolant consumption problems was dated July of '01. Makes me wonder when they put the new lower manifold on the production line. I think the sleeve in the upper is a great idea. I have a question in my own mind on how the heat transfer from the metal to the surrounding plastic is going to affect things, if at all. I am convinced that it can't make it any worse.
Did he say if any or all of the 99+ models that failed had the reduced diameter stove pipe? It would be interesting to know. I think the TSB that GM issued recommending replacing the lower and upper manifold for coolant consumption problems was dated July of '01. Makes me wonder when they put the new lower manifold on the production line. I think the sleeve in the upper is a great idea. I have a question in my own mind on how the heat transfer from the metal to the surrounding plastic is going to affect things, if at all. I am convinced that it can't make it any worse.
#8
Thanks Bill. That answered my questions. I guess I'm going to find out how long things last with the smaller stovepipe and no sleeve in the upper. If it fails again this car may be cut into little pieces and sold for scrap.
#9
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
changed UIM
Could it be that GM changed the dia of the nipple sometime during the 99 model year
so you have some with the old design and some with the new out there?
so you have some with the old design and some with the new out there?
#10
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True Car Nut
Re: changed UIM
Originally Posted by SSEBONNE4EVA
Could it be that GM changed the dia of the nipple sometime during the 99 model year
so you have some with the old design and some with the new out there?
so you have some with the old design and some with the new out there?
[edit: It would also make the new GM pipe incompatible with the older manifolds.]