I have a 92 Bonneville, at times it will stall while driving and others it will not start at all. I checked the codes, 17 and 58 came up. 17 is the cam position sensor and 58 is the anti-theft code. I heard that the anti theft in these (VATS) is known to wear out over the years which could result in these inconsistent occurances. When this is happenning I wonder if that is what sets off the cam position sensor because that confirms the cam position to the fuel injectors, which is cut-off by the VATS system. The reason being, when this happens I usually have to wait 5 to 10 minutes and then it will start back-up. This is the approximate time that the VATS will cut the system down. The code 58 has only come up one time usually when this happens the only code that comes up is code 17.Is this a characteristic of the cam position sensor?

The security light flashes breifly like it should. The strange thing is, yesterday I drove somewhere, parked and when I came out 5 min later it wouldn't start. after about 5-10 minutes it started. I checked the code and it was 17. Today my wife went to the store came out and it wouldn't start. After 10-15 min it started for her. I checked the code when she came home and it was code 58. I'm lost now.

When the car does not start, does it crank?

ive blown a few cams(dont ask how) and i know the engine will still crank but not turn over if that helps at all.

If the VATS system is mad at you about something, it won't let you start the car, by not activating either the starter motor or the fuel system, but once the car is running, it will not shut it down if a fault develops later.

So in other words, if you've got a dirty ignition key that makes proper contact with its resistance-pellet only part of the time, it'* not as if VATS is going to suddenly shut down the car while you're cruising down the road.

If the starter motor will crank the engine but it doesn't fire, your problem is not with VATS. It'll turn on a solid "SECURITY" light if VATS detects a bad key, and it will blink that light if it detects a fault with its own circuits while a key is in.

okay , first of all, when the car doesnt start, yes.....it cranks. I try once, then let it sit for a minute, then try again and let it sit then try again....bla bla ........okay, so yah it cranks. My husband dropped it off at the dealer and I just hung up with them and they cant find ANYTHING! It irritates me so bad. I told them to keep it again over nite, because if they drive it tomorrow maybe (hopefully) it'll stall for them. And back to the key thing...we changed keys....my husband thought maybe that I used mine so much that it was going bad, so me n him switched keys and it still happens. Oh yah and the security light....it never stays on. When Im stalilng, the only light that is on is the check engine light........the security light never stays on for longer than its suppose to , and it doesnt come on when im in the process of stalling.......Im just hoping that they come up with something tomorrow.

Since your engine is cranking, I would not suspect a problem with the theft-deterrent system, although it appears you've lost the fuel-enable signal once with the Code 58.

Here is a little info on Code 17:

The spark reference signal is used by the PCM to improve ignition timing accuracy during crank and at engine speeds up to 1200 RPM. The spark reference circuit allows the use of ignition control mode below 400 RPM, eliminating the need to utilize module mode during startup, and also allows the PCM to calculate true crankshaft position in 1/6 the time that use of the fuel contol reference signal would permit.

The PCM uses this signal until the engine exceeds 1200 RPM, then it switches to the fuel control reference signal.

DTC 17 is set if the engine is running, the PCM detects 150 fuel control reference pulses, and no spark reference pulses, and the RPMs are below 1200.

Like most electrical problems, there is a flow diagram. This one leads to poor ignition module connections, poor connection at 8-way ignition jumper harness connector, faulty ignition module, faulty PCM, etc.

Since your car is stalling or not starting, I would lean towards problems with the ignition module or ignition module connections. You need a good diagnostic.

you guys thanx so much for all yer information....But Im tellin ya, Im losin it. I called the dealership today and they told me that they found nothing......I was ticked. I explained to her that I drive that car daily and if not every day, atleast every other day that car stalls on me. So I gave her more information and she said theyd call me back later. well, a guy called me back round 7 tonite and said the same thing....Im like okay, if this was YOUR car, what would YOU do? He basically laughed and said he didnt know. The car is in really good condition, the inside, the outside (cept a few rust spots........regardless, I like the car) and so anyways he told me how he had the car out for a half an hour and nothing happened........he asked if he could keep the car over nite again, im like YES ...I mean , just find out whats wrong with it. He said those same two codes came up for them but that wasnt the problem, they were fine. I dont know, Im just really hoping that it stalls for him in the morning, cuz I know as soon as I get it home, its gonna happen to me. Im gonna give the information above this post and give it to my husband, he can understand it more than me.....thanx

Don't take this the wrong way, anyone, but... I hate it when it starts to look like _we_ know more about the cars than the dealer does. I mean, who'* getting _paid_ to be the experts here? It ain't me. (Well, it is me if you want advice on the Adobe PDF Library for all your publishing application needs, but never mind... )

You lost me with that sentence... He _got_ the codes, but then what? Seems to me that he should be doing some component testing on them (or maybe at least swap a new one in for a road test) if possible. Only thing I can think of here is that the codes might cover some other component as well, or that the codes might be provoked by some _other_ condition. In that case, I guess it'* understandable if the problem is hard to pin down right away.

Let him drive it as long as he wants, or at least as long as you can persuade him to. Sometimes it takes a while for the thing to surface.

Matter of fact, right now I'm driving my Dad'* '83 BMW 528e as a sort of long-term loan to give me enough time to find some long-time problems. Last night after about 10 days I finally nailed one such problem, a bad ground on the inner front fender, and suddenly it'* like having a new car again, electrically. So if the guy is genuinely trying to track down an intermittent fault on your car, let him do it for a while longer. Hang in there, kiddo.

Welp, just got back from my daughters field trip and my husband said they had called and it still hadnt stalled and theyre still up in the air on what the problem is. I AM trying to hang in there, trust me......but this has been going on for so long and now my husband has this new car picked out for me (1999 grand prix) and wants to pick it up tonite.....hes just tired of me driving a car thats unreliable and cant be trusted........and its weird, but I dont even want a new car, I want MY car, ya know? but anyways, Im trying to talk my husband into letting them keep it over nite, because I know as soon as I get it home, its gonna stall and its no use to me. My husband still hasnt read this forum, but he will when he gets home..he said he might mess with it some more. And as far as the codes........yes, they said those same codes came up for them as they did for my husband, but they said those whatever they were for , the vats and security? (in an eariler post) said they checked out fine......he said sometimes tehy come up forno reason and theyre fine........who knows, im just tired of the run around ....but it just blows my mind that its been on like 3 computers in the past year and a half and no one knows anything.