3800 - Swap 4T65 to 4T80 (part 2)
That transmission should have been in our cars in the first place!
I used the front mount from a 90 LeSabre
and it put the engine right where it is supposed to be!
(I was able to check it referencing the original torque axis mount
and it is in the exact same spot in relation to the body!)
The transmission actually clears everything under the hood.
i was afraid the large girth would hit the inner fender, but it clears like it was made to fit!
The only thing I have to do
is move the ABS brake lines closer to the fender
by removing the clips that separate the lines and keep them still,
then anchor them directly to fender using some good old steel line clamps.
I also have to move the ABS unit 2 inches forward
to clear the transmission fill/dipstick.
Pix were Missing
It'* a tight squeeze, no question!
The front notch
A second notch in the left rear
The steering rack hits a little rib on the back of the transmission.
I will remove the rib. (no pic)
I wanted to see what is was going to do in the car...
now I will remove the k-member and build three transmission mounts.
The engine will sit on three Energy Suspensions urethane GM transmission mounts in custom brackets (as long as they fit...)
and the stock GM front engine mount.
I will consider using a single top dogbone as a torque strap
IF it moves around too much, but I really don't think it will.
I went back and measured again the other day...
the 4T80 and the 4T65 both have the same input/output cL.
So with the engine where it should be, the axles are, too!
That transmission should have been in our cars in the first place!
Actually, the 4T60E in the '92-'96 is a superior transmission
when compared to the trouble-prone 4T65E that replaced it in '97.
The 4T80E is probably overkill for a stock 3800 n/a.
But the */C engine should have gotten the 4T80E from the start
instead of the aforementioned POS 4T65E
(the only thing different about the 4T65E-HD is the diff, anyway)
To use an upper dogbone on a H-body,
you will have to reinforce the radiator core support.
It'* been done, IIRC.
Yes, I would run a piece of .062" steel plate,
contoured to the core support,
all the way across,
bolted to every hole available, as a reinforcement.
The dogbone doesn't really do much,
esp. if I have four mounts on the eng/trans.
talked to a buddy and he suggested them they can do anything
he said there was a good chance they can machine a setup
similar to the aftermarket double and triple disk (TD truck) TCC assembly
and fit it in the 4T80e converter...
he suggested i bring em a core converter
and a couple of guys will cut it open and tinker with it
(who knows if the LS4 equipped W bodies
have the 4T80E with the viscous clutch? )
they are always looking for new products to sell
besides depending on what they can do we'll be buying two
Im thinking to switch the converter to a 6 lug arangment
what are your thoughts on
the differences in the 4L80E and the 4T80E (internals wise)
i have rebuilt a L not long ago?
give em a call they are right next to rt20 in rockford
(they did a couple of converters for me
when i worked at Wayne'* World a TH400 and 4l80e)
Midwest Racing Converters
"Good Enough...isnt Good Enough"
3535 Kishwaukee St
Rockford IL 61109
fax (815) 229-9874
I bought a converter from Transmission Crafters in Albany, GA.
They built a Allante converter (B23)
that uses a conventional clutch, not the viscous.
All the 4T80 converters are furnace braized,
so they can't tweak the fins at all (more stall).
I called Midwest, they wanted 195.00.
I paid 110.00 for the Allante converter.
I built the rear header to clear the shifter and switch
It was hard enough to get the 4-bolt drilled into the 3800 flywheel.
I had to notch the counterweight in two places
and add back the weight with the mig welder (see the pics)
My next is to buy a junk 97-up W-body k-member
and try the 3800/4T80 in it.
I'd like to sell a package to the hi-hp GTP guys, with LSD.
The LS4 W-bodies use a new 4T65E-HD
planetaries and beefed-up internals,
GM billet input shaft, output shaft, etc.
I finished the left rear transmission mount today.
I butchered the stock Bonneville 4T60/65E trans mount
and welded a huge bracket to it
that bolts across the back of the 4T80
and around the left side
using two side cover bolts (replaced the bolts with studs).
Sorry, no pic yet.
I have two more rubber mounts coming in the morning
to build the left front and right rear.
I will likely run one upper dogbone
using the right side w-body dogbone bracket (engine)
and an early (88-96) w-body core support bracket.
The short one from a 3400DOHC car
and the appropriate length bone to fit.
I always replace the rubber with urethane.
The engine and transmission are mounted to frame using four motor mounts.
Stock 87-91 front engine mount and modified engine brkt (remove a/c part)
modified stock left rear trans mount with custom transmission bracket,
BMW engine "puck" mount in the left front and right rear positions
with custom transmission ans frame mounting.
The engine sits perfectly level, side to side,
and a is about a 1/4" lower in the rear
(most every GM FWD car i have ever worked on,
the transmission pan has a slight rearward tilt).
The transmission output shafts are dead-on parallel to the LBJ
and equi-distant from the hubs (w/in 1/16").
It took alot of moving around until I was satisfied with the location.
I slotted the holes in the right front engine mount (about 1/2")
to move the engine away from the steering rack a tad.
I think it would still line up perfect with the stock torque-axis mount.
The guy who works with me said
I should retain the t-a mount as a "dogbone"
instead of adding the upper dogbone,
but I hate the thing
- makes putting belts on the engine a real PITA.
I have yet to scrub and paint the k-member
before I mount the engine for the final time.
Then it'* in the car tomorrow.
All I have to do is make a wiring harness for the 97 pcm to the trans plug.
I already have the 97 program modified to run the engine and transmission
Well, the drivetrain is installed in the car! All the wiring is hooked up.
I made a transmission harness with wires from a GTP harness.
The stock Eldo-Seville axles worked perfect!
The 4-mount system is going to work fine, I still might use the single GTP r.*. dogbone (see bracket in the pics)
I relocated the computer to the battery side.
I will build a small box to enclose it.
The wiring harness reached all the way over with no mods at all!
A couple wire-ties will hold it secure.
I need to extend about 4 wires
I made too short for the trans harness so it will reach, too.
what pcm are you using, and which programmer?
It'* a '96 4T60E car,
so I have to use the '97 4T65E pcm to run the 4T80E.
if it doesnt work for some reason,
i will use the diesel truck 4L80E stand-alone tcm to run the trans.
SO, it runs!
I need to do a CASE learn on it b/c it only cranks right up every third time.
When it does crank, it cranks hard.... but I have worse issues.
Besides the shift solenoid problem
with the second output being reversed
are there are any other issues
that won't allow the stock L67/4T65E PCM to control the 4T80E??
the goal was to test the feasibility of a 4T80E swap
in the H- and W-bodied L67 cars.
After building and re-building "budget" 4T65E transmissions for people
(and fixing "other companies" broken transmssions)
I am tired of wasting time with them.
I bought this used 4T80E for 150 bucks.
Lucky for me, it had just been rebuilt,
even if not, it would cost about 500.00 in parts & another $700 labor (mine)to build it for a customer.
Compared to a $3000.00 4T65E build!
The extra labor to swap so far has not been bad at all.
Next I will look at the W-bodies
You got an LSD in that thing?
Nope, an open diff
it won't last long if you keep doin that!
You can't tell, but the wheels are definately turning different speeds.
The pin is screaming "HELLLLP!"
Compare: this looks exactly like what I need:
this is the man who put a 3800 and 4T80 together
Jeff Ianitello/Engineered Performance
1988 Grand Am SE 2.0 Turbo
1996 Bonneville SSEi Twin-Charged
More found here
4T80E/Turbo-S/C... TIME FOR A NEW THREAD?